How much does it bother you to see people arguing on the forum. Analogists and digitalists and subcategories.

tima · Jun 1, 2024

"... different objectives of high-end audio."

caesar said:
Are these goals based on reality? Or on their subjective illusions?

Some people like to create boxes then ask into which one do you fit. Reponses are used to 'validate' the boxes and then claim that disagreements come from not properly understanding the meaning and 'reality' of the boxes. But the boxes are only constructs made by people who like to create boxes.

PYP · Jun 1, 2024

Dogma, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, uhh
Dogma, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all
Dogma huh (good God)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me, oh
Dogma, I despise
'Cause it means destruction of innocent lives
Dogma means tears to thousands of mother's eyes
When their sons go off to fight
And lose their lives

tima · Jun 1, 2024

PYP said:
Dogma, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, uhh
Dogma, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all
Dogma huh (good God)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me, oh
Dogma, I despise
'Cause it means destruction of innocent lives
Dogma means tears to thousands of mother's eyes
When their sons go off to fight
And lose their lives

with apologies to the Temptations and Edwin Starr
lyrics

bonzo75 · Jun 2, 2024

Ron Resnick said:
I find this very difficult to believe.

I would much prefer listening to music in a dedicated way on my personal idea of high-end audio system Hell (dCS on Boulder on YG) over listening via YouTube on a computer soundbar.

If you're just talking about casual background listening while cooking or doing exercise, then of course I understand.

But if you are saying unless you can listen to music in a dedicated way on a mere three or four favorite systems of SETs on horns, or Sigma MAAT, that you would rather listen to YouTube via computer soundbar over any other of the contemporary systems of the types often talked about on WBF, I think that is just stubborn.

Why is it difficult to believe - you know very well I don't like most of hifi systems - I would have found another hobby if speakers would have been only like Wilson, Magico, or Rockport, then attempt to listen to music on them. I have said this many times.

I don't mind being called stubborn by someone who listens to only 15 pieces of music, and confuses hifi with hi-spend. Also no idea why you confused vintage and contemporary here

bonzo75 · Jun 2, 2024

treitz3 said:
If a system is so bad that one has to refer to lesser mediums in order to listen without fatigue, then one does not have a refined system or music to listen too to begin with.

Yes I can't listen to many of the systems I visit for long. I have to force myself to even complete listening to a piece of music/1 track, irrespective of genre. There are very few I feel like not lifting off the LP, and can listen to different ones for hours, keep reaching for more.

If you have a system that allows you to listen to for a long period, that's great. You have managed to set up a good one.

Rensselaer · Jun 2, 2024

Ron Resnick said:
Hi Rexp,

I know nothing about the situation of that poster.

But if that is his true preference, then I suggest he start back at square one and figure out what kind of sound he finds most emotionally-engaging, and then audition components and put together a system that satisfies his thoughtfully selected high audio objective.

And if he doesn't want to do that he can just take the following system suggestions:

-- a Songer Audio speaker or Devore O96 or a Wolf Von Langa speaker

-- EAR or Trafomatic (or similar) integrated amplifier

-- LampizatOr Baltic 4 (he likes TV sound so obviously he does not mind digital audio)

Mia culpa. Thank you Ron for not ridiculing but instead offering solutions.

It wasn’t my turntable but my Ayon Spitfire integrated amplifier that was letting me down. It was boring. Too matter-of-fact (the argument that my tv sounded better was a bit tongue-in-cheek out of frustration).

Kedar brought over a friend who builds SET’s and we tried a couple, both made my system sound so much better that it was obvious that my amplifier was holding the rest of the system back. I couldn’t afford the amps that were brought over, but have replaced the Ayon with an Ongaku copy from Uesugi Ken of Soundgate Japan and am so much relieved that my analogue vinyl rig sounds as it should (much better than TV ;-) .

bonzo75 · Jun 2, 2024

Rensselaer said:
Kedar brought over a friend who builds SET’s and we tried a couple, both made my system sound so much better that it was obvious that my amplifier was holding the rest of the system back. I couldn’t afford the amps that were brought over, but have replaced the Ayon with an Ongaku copy from Uesugi Ken of Soundgate Japan and am so much relieved that my analogue vinyl rig sounds as it should (much better than TV ;-) .

Rensselaer is referring to the GM70 (and 211) from the GM70 seen in my universum videos, and which I also prefer to Kondo Neiro 2a3, audionote empress 2a3, Thoress hybrid 300b, and Silvercore 833c (and kronzilla depending on the drive required), as this GM70 is only 14 watts. It does not drive speakers like universum to their potential, but on Altec or Devores for example, is sufficient (never tried on Devores)

bonzo75 · Jun 2, 2024

Speaking of universums on a digital thread, here it is with the 2k or so Ming Da CD player

Ron Resnick · Jun 2, 2024

bonzo75 said:
I would have found another hobby if speakers would have been only like Wilson, Magico, or Rockport, then attempt to listen to music on them.

I find it very difficult to believe that you truly prefer listening to music on a computer sound bar via YouTube over listening to music on Rockport Lyra driven by Absolare electronics and fronted by VYGER/Red Sparrow.

bonzo75 said:
I don't mind being called stubborn by someone who listens to only 15 pieces of music

Please count accurately:

bonzo75 said:
and confuses hifi with hi-spend.

I often recommend modestly-priced systems, including as recently as yesterday.

bonzo75 · Jun 2, 2024

Ron Resnick said:
I find it very difficult to believe that you truly prefer listening to music on a computer sound bar via YouTube over listening to music on Rockport Lyra driven by Absolare electronics and fronted by VYGER/Red Sparrow.

Please count accurately:

View attachment 132069

I often recommend modestly-priced systems, including as recently as yesterday.

15 is often your quote. Not mine.

Mike Lavigne · Jun 2, 2024

Al M. said:
Excellent post, Caesar. It would have been even better if you would have left out certain contentious examples. Unfortunately, a number of people will probably concentrate on those, which will distract them from your solid overall analysis and message.

i think my 'investment' in all-in spendy digital, and posting about how i enjoy it, is fair game and likely i get less on-line heat for it than i expected. i don't take it personally when i see it.

easier to criticize than take seriously. it's always how things go.

such an easy target.

Ron Resnick · Jun 2, 2024

bonzo75 said:
15 is often your quote. Not mine.

Nope. Simply false.

Interpreting your claim as charitably and broadly as possible I find only one (1) possible reference going back to my registration on this forum in 2015. In 2019 I wrote: "I have bought every tape, literally every tape, I can find of the 15 or classical titles, regardless of conductor or performance or recording, that are very important to me."

Please provide cites/links to support your claim that I have posted or said that I "listen to only 15 pieces of music."

PYP · Jun 2, 2024

Mike Lavigne said:
i think my 'investment' in all-in spendy digital, and posting about how i enjoy it, is fair game and likely i get less on-line heat for it than i expected. i don't take it personally when i see it.

easier to criticize than take seriously. it's always how things go.

such an easy target.

if someone reads this review, they get a good sense of where you were and how you approach your quest: https://positive-feedback.com/Issue26/lavigne_vr9.htm There is definitely sweat equity involved. And a curious mind.

The part I liked the best was when you asked other experienced audiophiles for their unvarnished opinion so that you could improve the setup.

PYP · Jun 2, 2024

It isn't the arguing, per se, that bothers me (to answer your original question). Rather it is the inevitable regression to tit for tat. If we are to have the audiophile version of the Lord of the Flies, we are going to need some blood and guts, not this tepid "your post xxxx stated that I said that you said that I had said a long time ago that..."

bonzo75 · Jun 2, 2024

Ron Resnick said:
Nope. Simply false.

Interpreting your claim as charitably and broadly as possible I find only one (1) possible reference going back to my registration on this forum in 2015. In 2019 I wrote: "I have bought every tape, literally every tape, I can find of the 15 or classical titles, regardless of conductor or performance or recording, that are very important to me."

Please provide cites/links to support your claim that I have posted or said that I "listen to only 15 pieces of music."

Ok so that's 15 pieces of classical - how many non classical to add to the 15?

You realize I am talking about the number of musical pieces, and not numbers of records or tapes you have of the same performance in different formats/pressings

Ron Resnick · Jun 2, 2024

bonzo75 said:
Ok so that's 15 pieces of classical - how many non classical to add to the 15?

5 to 10 jazz pieces + several dozens of rock and pop

bonzo75 said:
You realize I am talking about the number of musical pieces, and not numbers of records or tapes you have of the same performance in different formats/pressings

yes (pieces, not versions of pieces)

bonzo75 · Jun 2, 2024

Ron Resnick said:
Nope. Simply false.

Interpreting your claim as charitably and broadly as possible I find only one (1) possible reference going back to my registration on this forum in 2015. In 2019 I wrote: "I have bought every tape, literally every tape, I can find of the 15 or classical titles, regardless of conductor or performance or recording, that are very important to me."

Please provide cites/links to support your claim that I have posted or said that I "listen to only 15 pieces of music."

"There are five classical music pieces I truly enjoy: Mozart Sym. 41, Beethoven Sym. 5, Beethoven Sym. 9 and Mussorgsky Night on Bald Mountain and Pictures at an Exhibition. I also like a few other things, but these five are my absolute favorites."

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/shostakovich-11-bso-nelsons-on-dg.27477/post-557764

* - B's 9th minus the ode to joy

Guess you upgraded in 2023 to 7 or 8 for big classical pieces
"It definitely gets elevated to one of the seven or eight big classical pieces I really like!"

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/ron%E2%80%99s-new-system.35810/post-868670

Ok, so total is 15 for classical, not overall. Because of the reference to 5 and 7 to 8, I thought 15 is for overall.

On your rock and pop, do you explore bootlegs?

bonzo75 · Jun 2, 2024

Ron Resnick said:
5 to 10 jazz pieces + several dozens of rock and pop

I did find references to your musical lists here

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/music-that-speaks-to-you.30452/post-644320

Introduction and Listening Biases

INTRODUCTION To better understand my reviews and the context in which I make my comments I want to explain my high-end audio philosophy, my listening biases and my music preferences. By so doing I hope that my reviews and my descriptions of what I hear will be more valuable to you. By...

www.whatsbestforum.com

bonzo75 · Jun 2, 2024

Ron Resnick said:
5 to 10 jazz pieces + several dozens of rock and pop

yes (pieces, not versions of pieces)

Of these, apart from the classical, which have been recorded in the analog only era?

spiritofmusic · Jun 2, 2024

Mike Lavigne said:
I sense we have tipped over into the twilight zone here. time to watch the UEFA Champions League soccer game.

Football match, please.

How much does it bother you to see people arguing on the forum. Analogists and digitalists and subcategories.

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