Looking for anyone that has successfully integrated the CR1 crossover and is loving the sound and music with it
JL Audio CR-1 Crossover
- Thread starter Mr. Miyagi
- Start date
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
It takes a while to dial in... especially using JL's own subs, but with persistence and trial/error and measurements, it can be done. I'm not getting rid of mine...... I've mastered a lot of albums with it.
I have used the CR-1 several times. In my own system as well as others.
What are you wanting to do? Are you wanting to use it as a low pass for the subwoofers only or are you trying to roll of the main speakers at 80Hz etc? If you have a highly resolving loudspeaker I don't recommend running your high frequencies through it.
What are you wanting to do? Are you wanting to use it as a low pass for the subwoofers only or are you trying to roll of the main speakers at 80Hz etc? If you have a highly resolving loudspeaker I don't recommend running your high frequencies through it.
I see you use the Wilson Crossover...do you prefer that over the CR1? If I were to consider dual subs, and experimenting with NOT running the XLFs full range (possibly cutting them off somewhere between 32-38hz, would you think the Wilson Crossover would be the best crossover option...and more importantly, do you think objectively (not just relative to CR1) it would do a good job...or would you advise as above...and not run high frequencies through it?
Hello Lloyd,
Comparing the CR-1 to the ActivXo. IMO, the CR-1 is noisy. This was easy to hear with guitar or plucked strings etc. I would not advise running your highs through it. The ActivXo has a lower noise floor so if you are wanting to high pass the mains I would say to go with it. Honestly, there are not a lot of good solutions on the market for this type of thing.
Fundamentally there are some technical differences between the two.
1. The ActivXo has gain control. It has a knob that can increase/decresae the volume of the left an right independently. There is also a global gain knob. The CR-1 has no method of changing the volume of the subs. It is assuming you are using active subs an can control volume with them.
2. The CR-1 has a choice of 12 and 24 dB/Oct slopes. The ActivXo has a choice of 12 and 18 dB/Oct slopes.
3. The ActivXo has continuously variable phase. The CR-1 does not.
3. The CR-1 has a couple knobs that can adjust the gain right at the crossover point. So it is possible to smooth the frequency response at the crossover point with the CR-1. I believe this is the CR-1's solution to continuously variable phase.
4. They both have a lower cutoff of 30Hz for the LPF. They both can be set to either stereo or mono subs. They both take single ended and balanced inputs/outputs. They both have variable crossover points.
Comparing the CR-1 to the ActivXo. IMO, the CR-1 is noisy. This was easy to hear with guitar or plucked strings etc. I would not advise running your highs through it. The ActivXo has a lower noise floor so if you are wanting to high pass the mains I would say to go with it. Honestly, there are not a lot of good solutions on the market for this type of thing.
Fundamentally there are some technical differences between the two.
1. The ActivXo has gain control. It has a knob that can increase/decresae the volume of the left an right independently. There is also a global gain knob. The CR-1 has no method of changing the volume of the subs. It is assuming you are using active subs an can control volume with them.
2. The CR-1 has a choice of 12 and 24 dB/Oct slopes. The ActivXo has a choice of 12 and 18 dB/Oct slopes.
3. The ActivXo has continuously variable phase. The CR-1 does not.
3. The CR-1 has a couple knobs that can adjust the gain right at the crossover point. So it is possible to smooth the frequency response at the crossover point with the CR-1. I believe this is the CR-1's solution to continuously variable phase.
4. They both have a lower cutoff of 30Hz for the LPF. They both can be set to either stereo or mono subs. They both take single ended and balanced inputs/outputs. They both have variable crossover points.
I forgot to answer the question on high passing the mains. I have not tried that withe ActivXo so I can't really comment on it. I would be very skeptical about doing it. Once a system reaches a certain level of transparency there is just no it is not going to damage the sound.
If I was going to high pass the mains then I am thinking I might as well look at a product like the Bacch SSP dio or adio. I could then HP the mains and carefully use some of the other features. But I don't know about that either. It would definitely be a trade off. Some good stuff but another noisy digital box to contend with.
Do you have an REW frequency sweep from 20-100Hz that you could share? You could PM if you don't want to post it.
If I was going to high pass the mains then I am thinking I might as well look at a product like the Bacch SSP dio or adio. I could then HP the mains and carefully use some of the other features. But I don't know about that either. It would definitely be a trade off. Some good stuff but another noisy digital box to contend with.
Do you have an REW frequency sweep from 20-100Hz that you could share? You could PM if you don't want to post it.
Thank you very much! Let me see if I can get a sweep. I think the one I have was from our other room. In this room, we are roughly flat to 25hz and then -5db at 20hz. This is according to the Wilson dealer who installed the XLFs and was kind enough to set up the Velodyne DD18+ for me (running completely in parallel, not cutoff at all of XLFs).
I am thinking of dual subs now (each dual-opposing 18" cones)...and then working them into the system with Wilson Active Crossover to see if giving the XLFs more headroom (via reduction in their low-frequency duties) helps or detracts because of one has to do it (introducing crossover and then trying to blend the subs up more completely to meet the XLFs.
Hi there, just wanted to clarify a few things on the CR-1. Disclaimer: I'm a JL Audio employee.
- While it doesn't have a traditional gain control, it does have the balance knob, allowing you to change the ratio of speakers vs subs. The sub's individual gain controls should be set to your "ballpark" setting, then the CR-1's balance control can be used to make smaller adjustments.
- The intended method to control phase is from the subwoofers themselves. This certainly could have been added to the CR-1 as well, but I imagine it was omitted to reduce complexity. Of course not all subwoofers have continuously variable phase controls, but all JL Audio home models do.
- The crossover damping controls aren't a replacement for phase control, but are to be used in conjunction with phase control. As you mentioned, this is another tool to smooth the transition at the crossover point. They adjust the Q factor of each filter.
Regarding noise, this is not something I've experienced personally, and I'm only now hearing any mention of it in this forum. The only exception is noise being caused by a connection problem, or coming from somewhere else in the system. The unbalanced inputs also need to have shorting plugs installed if they're not being used (we include some in the box). I don't have any data on the noise floor of the CR-1, but that's something I may investigate just out of personal interest. I've never found the CR-1 to be anything but very transparent and very quiet.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
As have I... The only other hw x-overs I have used are the Wilson and Pass.... The CR-1 is perfect for my JL "system".
this one is pretty good, i've read. and it's going to be very transparent. but cost you too.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Awesome crossover but very limited on what you can do with it. I would use it with subs that had more functions than a passive sub.
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What do you mean by “resolving”. I’m curious what characteristics of a speaker you think should not be controlled by the crossover
If a crossover adds some noise or takes away some of the information i have fought so hard to obtain trough a all analog chain, it is not for me. My sub-towers are passive, a crossover without ample phase adjustments is just not good enough for my system. When i integrated sub-towers with my MBL 101 E speakers i ended up not connecting the built in sub-driver, running mains with passive filter only and sub-towers with active crossover at 100 Hz, 24db slope. It was just more transparent/resolving.
Very limited adaptability, only 12db slope, and no phase adjustment, lowest cut frequency 63 HZ. Maybe good instead of a passive crossover on a full range speaker, not good for setting up more complex speaker system.this one is pretty good, i've read. and it's going to be very transparent. but cost you too.
Ok - update time.
First - I prefer using a umik than iPhone mic / the iPhone mic has filters so I like plugging the external mic into phone and it sits nicely on top of my chair where my ears are and I can read the phone from the subs when I am dialing in.
FIRST STEP: get volume equal
I mute everything and play a test tone equal to my crossover point - so now I am playing with 90hz crossover so I play 90hz test on Roon thru quobuz. Next; I increase preamp until phone reads 75 db. Then I mute that speaker and have sub at 90hz crossover and volume off / I increase volume until it’s as 75 db to match the speaker.
I repeat for other side
SECOND - phase
I unmute speaker and sub one side at a time. I switch the polarity to 180 and then turn the phase dial from zero to the point where the DB meter reaches lowest point. When it hits nadir we good.
Then I am dialing the CR1 volume . One huge benefit is you can adjust the balance easily - when you turn to speakers it increases and proportionally lowers subs and vice versa so it’s really handy.
Next up - master the drop offs at crossover point and play with dampening to smooth out drop offs. This is next challenge.
I need to live with this for few weeks - slow but steady will win the race with sub dialing in.
Critical to run pink noise to understand lower hz ranges and what is being recorded. Data is power.
System was lean - with subs it’s much more of a full meal.
First - I prefer using a umik than iPhone mic / the iPhone mic has filters so I like plugging the external mic into phone and it sits nicely on top of my chair where my ears are and I can read the phone from the subs when I am dialing in.
FIRST STEP: get volume equal
I mute everything and play a test tone equal to my crossover point - so now I am playing with 90hz crossover so I play 90hz test on Roon thru quobuz. Next; I increase preamp until phone reads 75 db. Then I mute that speaker and have sub at 90hz crossover and volume off / I increase volume until it’s as 75 db to match the speaker.
I repeat for other side
SECOND - phase
I unmute speaker and sub one side at a time. I switch the polarity to 180 and then turn the phase dial from zero to the point where the DB meter reaches lowest point. When it hits nadir we good.
Then I am dialing the CR1 volume . One huge benefit is you can adjust the balance easily - when you turn to speakers it increases and proportionally lowers subs and vice versa so it’s really handy.
Next up - master the drop offs at crossover point and play with dampening to smooth out drop offs. This is next challenge.
I need to live with this for few weeks - slow but steady will win the race with sub dialing in.
Critical to run pink noise to understand lower hz ranges and what is being recorded. Data is power.
System was lean - with subs it’s much more of a full meal.
