Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

I'm really pretty impressed with how my stereo sounds. Especially using digital. I am sitting quite near field. But darn. The detail and reaism is off the charts compared to my last room. Its the best my stereo Has been. At least for clarity, balance of tone, frequency extension, bass and impact. The soundstage is wide and well placed. Yet it has little depth. I probably have to move back for that.

Anyhow. This feels like one of those leapfrog moments I have talked of in the past. For the most part, the ststem sounds better than it ever has in the past. That means playing digital on the same equipment in a different room is of higher quality than my vinyl or tape has ever been. That can be interpreted as digital is better than vinyl and tape, depending on the setup. One could argue I have to re-install the vinyl and tape to compare. They should have improved also. Maybe true. But, by resetting the same equipment in a different location has elevated the digital source beyond the capabilitues of the vinyl and tape in a different room.

By this thinking, I could say digital is just as good, if not better than vinyl and tape, depending of the equipment setup.
 
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Kingrex said:
I'm really pretty impressed with how my stereo sounds. Especially using digital. I am sitting quite near field. But darn. The detail and reaism is off the charts compared to my last room. Its the best my stereo Has been. At least for clarity, balance of tone, frequency extension, bass and impact. The soundstage is wide and well placed. Yet it has little depth. I probably have to move back for that.

Anyhow. This feels like one of those leapfrog moments I have talked of in the past. For the most part, the ststem sounds better than it ever has in the past. That means playing digital on the same equipment in a different room is of higher quality than my vinyl or tape has ever been. That can be interpreted as digital is better than vinyl and tape, depending on the setup. One could argue I have to re-install the vinyl and tape to compare. They should have improved also. Maybe true. But, by resetting the same equipment in a different location has elevated the digital source beyond the capabilitues of the vinyl and tape in a different room.

By this thinking, I could say digital is just as good, if not better than vinyl and tape, depending of the equipment setup.
Click to expand...
Until you set up an analog source, then you may have another epiphany....
 
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Kingrex said:
For the most part, the ststem sounds better than it ever has in the past.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should just stop, skip the analogue, enjoy the music and call it good for awhile. If you still feel the same way in a month or so, maybe you just call it good, be done and devote your time to other endeavors.
 
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Rexp said:
Until you set up an analog source, then you may have another epiphany....
Click to expand...

Even if that were the case (and that judgement will vary by observer), the point here obviously is that there is no inherent secret magic to analog and no inherent detrimental flaw to digital that would always elevate analog over digital, no matter what.

Room and room acoustics, system setup in the room, system quality and synergy are much more important to great sound than any differences between analog and digital.

Of course, the true believers will deny all that. Let them.

***

Sure, the best comparison is analog vs digital in the same system and room, side by side. I have my thoughts on that, having heard several such comparisons. However, that is beside the point made above.
 
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Kingrex said:
I'm really pretty impressed with how my stereo sounds. Especially using digital. I am sitting quite near field. But darn. The detail and reaism is off the charts compared to my last room. Its the best my stereo Has been. At least for clarity, balance of tone, frequency extension, bass and impact. The soundstage is wide and well placed. Yet it has little depth. I probably have to move back for that.

Anyhow. This feels like one of those leapfrog moments I have talked of in the past. For the most part, the ststem sounds better than it ever has in the past. That means playing digital on the same equipment in a different room is of higher quality than my vinyl or tape has ever been. That can be interpreted as digital is better than vinyl and tape, depending on the setup. One could argue I have to re-install the vinyl and tape to compare. They should have improved also. Maybe true. But, by resetting the same equipment in a different location has elevated the digital source beyond the capabilitues of the vinyl and tape in a different room.

By this thinking, I could say digital is just as good, if not better than vinyl and tape, depending of the equipment setup.
Click to expand...
I am very glad you have put together a digital system that ticks all your boxes (clarity, frequency extension, bass and impact) and makes you happy. Hopefully this will be it and you will never have to spend another dime on it (by the way, roughly how much has gone into it to get you to this point?).

I accept that in your view, your new system set up sounds a lot better than the analogue set up you previously had but wouldn't agree with your conclusion, based upon such, that "digital is just as good, if not better than vinyl and tape", despite the conditional of "depending on the equipment setup" you added to the end.

Yes, that last condition if you meant the "equipment/setup", could mean an unfair comparison, say of your digital equipment to a $100.00 USB turntable and no-name MM cartridge, or a cheap battery powered cassette tape recorder used for voice memos, in which case you are probably correct, but if against a Studer R2R into a decent system...

Also, you and I differ on what characteristics a great system should provide.You claim your equipment now sounds better than vinyl and tape in that it excels in "clarity, balance of tone, frequency extension, bass and impact."

I personally thought that the greatest improvement in my analogue set up was when the "hi-fi" characteristics (clarity, tone, frequency extension, bass and impact) disappeared, leaving just music without the system drawing my attention to any particular Hi-Fi trait.
 
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Rensselaer said:
I am very glad you have put together a digital system that ticks all your boxes (clarity, frequency extension, bass and impact) and makes you happy. Hopefully this will be it and you will never have to spend another dime on it (by the way, roughly how much has gone into it to get you to this point?).

I accept that in your view, your new system set up sounds a lot better than the analogue set up you previously had but wouldn't agree with your conclusion, based upon such, that "digital is just as good, if not better than vinyl and tape", despite the conditional of "depending on the equipment setup" you added to the end.

Yes, that last condition if you meant the "equipment/setup", could mean an unfair comparison, say of your digital equipment to a $100.00 USB turntable and no-name MM cartridge, or a cheap battery powered cassette tape recorder used for voice memos, in which case you are probably correct, but if against a Studer R2R into a decent system...

Also, you and I differ on what characteristics a great system should provide.You claim your equipment now sounds better than vinyl and tape in that it excels in "clarity, balance of tone, frequency extension, bass and impact."

I personally thought that the greatest improvement in my analogue set up was when the "hi-fi" characteristics (clarity, tone, frequency extension, bass and impact) disappeared, leaving just music without the system drawing my attention to any particular Hi-Fi trait.
Click to expand...
So you can’t take Rex’s report of great, musically involving sound without spinning it into a negative — such as the dismissive “hi-fi traits.”

How about just follow Rex’s new room journey and see where it goes — and drop the tired digital/analog inferior/superior agenda.

I personally hope he continues to get his system to higher and higher levels whether it be through a digital or analog setup — or both.
 
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Rensselaer said:
I personally thought that the greatest improvement in my analogue set up was when the "hi-fi" characteristics (clarity, tone, frequency extension, bass and impact) disappeared, leaving just music without the system drawing my attention to any particular Hi-Fi trait.
Click to expand...
Good explanation.
 
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Al M. said:
Even if that were the case (and that judgement will vary by observer), the point here obviously is that there is no inherent secret magic to analog and no inherent detrimental flaw to digital that would always elevate analog over digital, no matter what.

Room and room acoustics, system setup in the room, system quality and synergy are much more important to great sound than any differences between analog and digital.

Of course, the true believers will deny all that. Let them.

***

Sure, the best comparison is analog vs digital in the same system and room, side by side. I have my thoughts on that, having heard several such comparisons. However, that is beside the point made above.
Click to expand...
Very good way to put it Al.

Yes, If I set up my vinyl, it would probably supersede my digital on some source material. Not all. But the point is the room is having a profound impact. More so than I thought. And the equipment I have plays a lot better than I thought it could. I'm pretty shocked. The only issue I really hear is the less than optimum depth of soundstage. Outside that, the system and digital i particular is really really good as is. And I bet it might be a little better if I introduced a clock and AES into my DAC. Or a good transport.

What was also good were some digital rips from vinyl people have sent me in the past. They play very well. But I'm pretty sure I hear the vinyl playback equipment in the chain. A subtle shaping of the sound. A slight coloration. Not bad in any way. Just some color. It makes me wonder how much color one vinyl system to another has compared to digital.
 
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Kingrex said:
Very good way to put it Al.

Yes, If I set up my vinyl, it would probably supersede my digital on some source material. Not all. But the point is the room is having a profound impact. More so than I thought. And the equipment I have plays a lot better than I thought it could. I'm pretty shocked. The only issue I really hear is the less than optimum depth of soundstage. Outside that, the system and digital i particular is really really good as is. And I bet it might be a little better if I introduced a clock and AES into my DAC. Or a good transport.

What was also good were some digital rips from vinyl people have sent me in the past. They play very well. But I'm pretty sure I hear the vinyl playback equipment in the chain. A subtle shaping of the sound. A slight coloration. Not bad in any way. Just some color. It makes me wonder how much color one vinyl system to another has compared to digital.
Click to expand...
The room (w/ good set up) , the recording = what matters the most.

The most high-faluting digital or analog system in a bad room is going to sound like a bad room.

It looks like Rex is tackling the challenge of his room.
 
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wil said:
So you can’t take Rex’s report of great, musically involving sound without spinning it into a negative — such as the dismissive “hi-fi traits.”

How about just follow Rex’s new room journey and see where it goes — and drop the tired digital/analog inferior/superior agenda.

I personally hope he continues to get his system to higher and higher levels whether it be through a digital or analog setup — or both.
Click to expand...

Though I agree with Mark’s concluding paragraph, I like your post and agree with your sentiment that people should respect those willing to share their journey on a system thread and not endlessly criticize it because their approach to the hobby may be slightly different from your own. Good advice Wil.
 
Kingrex said:
I'm really pretty impressed with how my stereo sounds. Especially using digital. I am sitting quite near field. But darn. The detail and reaism is off the charts compared to my last room. Its the best my stereo Has been. At least for clarity, balance of tone, frequency extension, bass and impact. The soundstage is wide and well placed. Yet it has little depth. I probably have to move back for that.

Anyhow. This feels like one of those leapfrog moments I have talked of in the past. For the most part, the ststem sounds better than it ever has in the past. That means playing digital on the same equipment in a different room is of higher quality than my vinyl or tape has ever been. That can be interpreted as digital is better than vinyl and tape, depending on the setup. One could argue I have to re-install the vinyl and tape to compare. They should have improved also. Maybe true. But, by resetting the same equipment in a different location has elevated the digital source beyond the capabilitues of the vinyl and tape in a different room.

By this thinking, I could say digital is just as good, if not better than vinyl and tape, depending of the equipment setup.
Click to expand...
You could say digital is as good or better than vinyl but your system related premise is on shaky ground.

Hey I like digital it's convenient and well done like in your separate digital system it could be everything one wants. Having said that I know when I listen to a well executed turntable driven analog system I know there is a reason why digital is trying to catch up to the sound of vinyl.
 
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Yes AudooHR. But its likely there is someone with a good room and good digital and their digital sounds more natural and real than your vinyl. Its system dependent. Room to room. Heavily influenced by focus and effort in any one direction.

Lots of peoples digital sounds better than their vinyl. The defaul response is, put more effort and resources into the vinyl. Then the vinyl sounds better. And the default reaponse is put more effort and reaources into digital. Then the digital sounds better than the vinyl. Its just a game of ping pong. The dealers love it!!!!!!!.
 
And, FWIW its way more effort to set up vinyl. I dropped a couple platforms I had on the carpet and put the footers I used under the server and DAC. And hour into it I had amazing digital running. I'm sure it will only be better when I get the room and equipment more sorted.
I haven't even thought about the vinyl. I need a stand. Tools to mount the arm. Tools to setup the cartridge. I'm scared to proceed as I see a huge investment in time. And what if I decide to rearrange things like speakeds and amps and equipment racks. My TT is pretty light. But many people need multiple bodies to move a table.
 
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Kingrex said:
Yes AudooHR. But its likely there is someone with a good room and good digital and their digital sounds more natural and real than your vinyl. Its system dependent. Room to room. Heavily influenced by focus and effort in any one direction.

Lots of peoples digital sounds better than their vinyl. The defaul response is, put more effort and resources into the vinyl. Then the vinyl sounds better. And the default reaponse is put more effort and reaources into digital. Then the digital sounds better than the vinyl. Its just a game of ping pong. The dealers love it!!!!!!!.
Click to expand...
You appear to have your mind made up! If you feel digital sounds better to you then so be it.

Some will agree others not because it is not only system dependent it is user dependant, there is no correct answer in this debate.

Full disclosure, I grew up listening to vinyl in the late 60's into the 70's and beyond so it is natural that I would have an affinity for all things vinyl including the sound. It is different than digital, the user has to decide which is better.

Having said that I am impressed with the strides that digital has made; unlistenable CD's to streaming that can be both convenient and sound darn good. When I listen to my friends Lampizator and Oladra setup I can't deny that the gap between vinyl and digital has diminished greatly!
 
Kingrex said:
And, FWIW its way more effort to set up vinyl. I dropped a couple platforms I had on the carpet and put the footers I used under the server and DAC. And hour into it I had amazing digital running. I'm sure it will only be better when I get the room and equipment more sorted.
I haven't even thought about the vinyl. I need a stand. Tools to mount the arm. Tools to setup the cartridge. I'm scared to proceed as I see a huge investment in time. And what if I decide to rearrange things like speakeds and amps and equipment racks. My TT is pretty light. But many people need multiple bodies to move a table.
Click to expand...
I have both analogue and digital.

Initially digital seems easier although I have had my fair share of frustration trying to get the best sound out of it. If you are just starting out with it I think you will quickly find that you can go down the rabbit hole with it too!
 
Kingrex said:
I haven't even thought about the vinyl. I need a stand. Tools to mount the arm. Tools to setup the cartridge. I'm scared to proceed as I see a huge investment in time. And what if I decide to rearrange things like speakeds and amps and equipment racks.
Click to expand...
Based on your previous posts, I understood that you and your wife have moved to your dream location (one of the best in the US in my view) to retire and, I assume, relax and enjoy your golden years. So you are thinking you may want to set up your analogue system because?
 
AudioHR said:
You could say digital is as good or better than vinyl but your system related premise is on shaky ground.

Hey I like digital it's convenient and well done like in your separate digital system it could be everything one wants. Having said that I know when I listen to a well executed turntable driven analog system I know there is a reason why digital is trying to catch up to the sound of vinyl.
Click to expand...

Digital can never "catch up to the sound of vinyl", nor should it try to. That is because the two modes of reproduction are very different. That does not mean that the sound of digital is per se inferior to the sound of vinyl.

Just consider how different two cartridges on the same tonearm and turntable can sound. Or how different tone arms and turntables can sound. Which "flavor" of any of these sounds should digital emulate?

Furthermore, the cutting of vinyl records is from a different master, necessitated by the technical requirements of the vinyl medium.
 
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I have both, take vinyl all day long, to each there own
 
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