“Examining the Criticism: Is Synergistic Research Unfairly Singled Out in the High-End Audio Industry?”
- Thread starter Ted Denney III
- Start date
I don't care about measurements, I really don't.
I choose products that improve the sound. If measurements can be found later that explain why, that's great, as there are of course measurements that will, it's just a matter of what.
A great example from the early days of digital is jitter. If you just looked at data as bits, the data was identical, it was the clock jitter that was altering the sound.
If all you had to measure was comparing the raw data bits, there would be no quantifiable difference.
Many say cognitive bias is to blame, yet products I didn't ever think or want to make a difference have, and others that got rave reviews from anyone were horrible.
I prefer buying products from companies that make new products based solely or largely upon listening; measurements should always be an afterthought.
I agree that SR products are often the subject of criticism we don't see levied against other brands, and that's a pity. I don't recall Nordost being asked for measurements to justify Odin Gold, or for Shunyata's latest iterations. I don't recall people attacking Cardas over their cable geometry claims, either. I also noticed the magazines acting like Shunyata invented grounding tweaks when SR has had them for over a decade.
I choose products that improve the sound. If measurements can be found later that explain why, that's great, as there are of course measurements that will, it's just a matter of what.
A great example from the early days of digital is jitter. If you just looked at data as bits, the data was identical, it was the clock jitter that was altering the sound.
If all you had to measure was comparing the raw data bits, there would be no quantifiable difference.
Many say cognitive bias is to blame, yet products I didn't ever think or want to make a difference have, and others that got rave reviews from anyone were horrible.
I prefer buying products from companies that make new products based solely or largely upon listening; measurements should always be an afterthought.
I agree that SR products are often the subject of criticism we don't see levied against other brands, and that's a pity. I don't recall Nordost being asked for measurements to justify Odin Gold, or for Shunyata's latest iterations. I don't recall people attacking Cardas over their cable geometry claims, either. I also noticed the magazines acting like Shunyata invented grounding tweaks when SR has had them for over a decade.
I concur and generally in my reviews I never focus on measurements rather focus on if I appreciated the way something sounded. I try to also stay away from the word "better" when doing a comparison and only use it when comparing something I liked in the past. Otherwise snobbery ensues and is quite a turn off.
Yes it is. I’m actually surprised because lots of people are able to post videos and you’re claiming to have the best system in the world. I imagine you would be able to figure it out. But I understand. People are sometimes reluctant to post videos of their systems.
Thank you for the invitation.
I’m new here, I just figured it out. I can post a video link right here, I’ll post a few up after lunch. And tag you in.
Ted Denney
Lead designer, CEO, Synergistic Research Inc
These discussions are always entertaining, if only marginally illuminating. I agree that Mr. Denney is getting what he wants, most likely attention for what he sells.
And if he is successful, I’m happy for him. People are free to buy, or not, they can vote with their dollars. I own some relatively high-end cables so if it’s snake oil, I’m a victim. I’ll admit I’m a little agnostic, I perceived a difference when I tried the cables, but I know that expectation bias is real and I know that measurements, another way to say science, doesn’t exactly prove the case. Still, if someone says they hear a difference so be it.
I’m not a “quantum“ physicist, but I do know a little about business and here’s what makes me skeptical. If the purveyors of high end cables, fuses, switches, whatever, are certain their products make a big improvement obvious to consumers than there seems to be a clear course of action. Put on meticulously designed and refereed blind tests set up and judged by truly independent organizations of well known integrity, and live stream those tests. The first one that has a great majority of the test subjects pick out their product as the best the great majority of the time will undoubtedly see a big surge in sales. Yet, I’m not aware that this has been done. Maybe I missed it. That makes me a bit agnostic.
Nevertheless, Mr. Denney has a right to sell his products and people have a right to buy or not buy, I don’t understand why that’s an an emotional proposition for anyone. While his marketing effort here seems a bit over the top, that’s also for the consumers to decide.
And if he is successful, I’m happy for him. People are free to buy, or not, they can vote with their dollars. I own some relatively high-end cables so if it’s snake oil, I’m a victim. I’ll admit I’m a little agnostic, I perceived a difference when I tried the cables, but I know that expectation bias is real and I know that measurements, another way to say science, doesn’t exactly prove the case. Still, if someone says they hear a difference so be it.
I’m not a “quantum“ physicist, but I do know a little about business and here’s what makes me skeptical. If the purveyors of high end cables, fuses, switches, whatever, are certain their products make a big improvement obvious to consumers than there seems to be a clear course of action. Put on meticulously designed and refereed blind tests set up and judged by truly independent organizations of well known integrity, and live stream those tests. The first one that has a great majority of the test subjects pick out their product as the best the great majority of the time will undoubtedly see a big surge in sales. Yet, I’m not aware that this has been done. Maybe I missed it. That makes me a bit agnostic.
Nevertheless, Mr. Denney has a right to sell his products and people have a right to buy or not buy, I don’t understand why that’s an an emotional proposition for anyone. While his marketing effort here seems a bit over the top, that’s also for the consumers to decide.
Wow -- those four brown and black boxes behind the components are the original Shunyata Hydra.
Can I get fries with that?
I liked your previous avatar better -- a picture of you.
And these wires connect four turntables, at least ten arms, two phono stages and at least one preamp.
...that's nice, but my point was the photo shows a bazillion cables run in parallel, and in close proximity to each other, which has always been ill-advised.
Yes, Wisdom Audio controlled the system, and specified its set up. I was merely commissioned to shut my factory down for two weeks so we could build all of the cables you see in the photo. As everyone knows who’s attended my shows, Synergistic Research has some of the best sound at show, every time.
Ted Denney
Lead designer, CEO Synergistic Research Inc.
Yes. And not only that, these are commercial industrial wires, and cords and outlets very carefully chosen for sound quality. No fancy audiophile aftermarket cables, and power cords. And yet, the sound was extremely resolving and natural.
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Ted,
Did you compare Baseline or lower models to other companies, top-of-the-range (Cardas Clear Beyond, Nordost Odin Gold), or higher-tier (Shunyata Research Denali) products?
As handsome as Bob is, i still like the looks of the VYGER better !
You guys are funny, obviously each talking past each other about a different system !
It’s part of our product development process. When we come out with a new product, it needs to beat whatever is considered the industry leader at twice its price, or more. The cornerstone of our marketing program is to make our products available to qualified customers through our authorized dealers and distributors. If you’re interested, I invite you make these comparisons for yourself. You will be extremely surprised. Extremely.
Ted Denney
Lead designer, CEO Synergistic Research Inc.
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