Thanks for sharing. No such issues using a Blue fuse in my Zenith Mk3, but obviously it has a less substantial power supply.
A new star in 2019 : Innuos Statement Server
- Thread starter CKKeung
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Thanks for sharing. No such issues using a Blue fuse in my Zenith Mk3, but obviously it has a less substantial power supply.
Hello Blackmorec:
It’s been a while since I installed a few tweaks. I wanted to let you know what happened. Funny thing is that each different tweak raised the sound quality level in similar ways.
1) HRS CenterStage2 footers (medium size) - replaced Stillpoints. Took about 4-5 days for them to settle in. Replaced Stillpoints sizzle with smoother top end and vocals. Better definition across the board. Significantly more low end clarity. Soundstage and image larger and deeper.
2). IsoTek Evo3 power conditioner, with new Cardas Clear power cable, replaced an aging 20amp Furman IT-Ref balanced unit. Another big leap in the same areas impacted by the footers. Clarity, soundstage, image, vocals and bass all improved. Darker background improved detail more.
3) Umbilical cord between power and processing chassis replaced with Chord Umbilical cable. This was a “Wow!” Exceeded expectations. Suddenly the most critical mids, vocals, horns, piano, etc, were leaping out of the system. Over time, while the mids kept doing their new thing, the rest of the frequency range caught up. Hard for me to describe except to say I felt a greater sense of presence, realistic tonality and ambiance.
All these tweaks, when combined, made a truly significant impact on my listening. Almost daily, since Covid hit us in early March, I have spent hours listening to the system. These tweaks made my time such a pleasure to replay music I knew well and hear many anticipated passages in a different, much improved, light.
Black, I’m back with another question for you:
I am buying the Melco network switch. Please provide some guidance on linear power supplies to use with it.
Too bad the Statement’s 256 DSD issues have removed it from the desirable ranks. A lot of money to spend on an inadequately engineered product. Will Innuos do anything for us or lose us as future customers. I put my dealer who recommended it in the same boat.
Regardless, I play mostly Redbook so I’m more than fine here for me. Stream Tidal Masters too. Thanks so much for your advice. Stay safe
It’s been a while since I installed a few tweaks. I wanted to let you know what happened. Funny thing is that each different tweak raised the sound quality level in similar ways.
1) HRS CenterStage2 footers (medium size) - replaced Stillpoints. Took about 4-5 days for them to settle in. Replaced Stillpoints sizzle with smoother top end and vocals. Better definition across the board. Significantly more low end clarity. Soundstage and image larger and deeper.
2). IsoTek Evo3 power conditioner, with new Cardas Clear power cable, replaced an aging 20amp Furman IT-Ref balanced unit. Another big leap in the same areas impacted by the footers. Clarity, soundstage, image, vocals and bass all improved. Darker background improved detail more.
3) Umbilical cord between power and processing chassis replaced with Chord Umbilical cable. This was a “Wow!” Exceeded expectations. Suddenly the most critical mids, vocals, horns, piano, etc, were leaping out of the system. Over time, while the mids kept doing their new thing, the rest of the frequency range caught up. Hard for me to describe except to say I felt a greater sense of presence, realistic tonality and ambiance.
All these tweaks, when combined, made a truly significant impact on my listening. Almost daily, since Covid hit us in early March, I have spent hours listening to the system. These tweaks made my time such a pleasure to replay music I knew well and hear many anticipated passages in a different, much improved, light.
Black, I’m back with another question for you:
I am buying the Melco network switch. Please provide some guidance on linear power supplies to use with it.
Too bad the Statement’s 256 DSD issues have removed it from the desirable ranks. A lot of money to spend on an inadequately engineered product. Will Innuos do anything for us or lose us as future customers. I put my dealer who recommended it in the same boat.
Regardless, I play mostly Redbook so I’m more than fine here for me. Stream Tidal Masters too. Thanks so much for your advice. Stay safe
popspin,
Do you mind telling me what "256 DSD issues" are there with the Statement? Because, AFAIK, it plays DSD256 files just fine over network or USB, as long as the DAC is able to accept it.
Thank you,
Alex
Hi Alex:
I have read, and believe saw confirmed, that DSD files “above” 256 would not play on the Statement. Am I mistaken?
popspin
Ah, DSD512? I might have a file or two and honestly I don't remember if it worked on the Statement...
I just wanted to put your comment in perspective, as there is no issue playing DSD256 (even though the "official" specifications only claim DSD128), and I don't think it's fair to call the product "inadequately engineered". From the beginning, the Innuos products (all of them) are NOT supposed to be hot-rods with beefy processors. That's by design, not "inadequate engineering". Innuos believes that kind of processor brings SQ benefits.
Whether you believe in that or not will determine if that is the right product for you.
PS: just thought I'd mention that, often, the DAC won't support those higher DSD resolutions, forcing Roon to downsample. And in this case, the Innuos *will* choke, as its low-power CPU won't handle DSD up/downsampling. This has happened with a WBF member who I've helped, who was trying to play DSD256 while his DAC only supported DSD128...
I just wanted to put your comment in perspective, as there is no issue playing DSD256 (even though the "official" specifications only claim DSD128), and I don't think it's fair to call the product "inadequately engineered". From the beginning, the Innuos products (all of them) are NOT supposed to be hot-rods with beefy processors. That's by design, not "inadequate engineering". Innuos believes that kind of processor brings SQ benefits.
Whether you believe in that or not will determine if that is the right product for you.
PS: just thought I'd mention that, often, the DAC won't support those higher DSD resolutions, forcing Roon to downsample. And in this case, the Innuos *will* choke, as its low-power CPU won't handle DSD up/downsampling. This has happened with a WBF member who I've helped, who was trying to play DSD256 while his DAC only supported DSD128...
Hi Alex:
Let me start by saying I love listening to red book on my Statement. Nothing I’ve had before has sounded this good. Tidal streaming much better than expected. It constantly makes me smile.
Perhaps others with more experience playing 512 and higher DSD files on the unit can tell us their experience since your exposure was admittedly limited.
My perspective from the buyer’s side is a bit different then yours as a dealer. The Statement was sold to me as a most technologically advanced Roon certified server/player that was capable of handling known high res options. It was sold as a audio player/server/Roon core & player all in one product. No additional Roon core server needed. Innuos is not listed as a Partner or Roon Tested Device. I wish it were. The higher rate DSD issue on top of this is a bad look. It may not impact most of what I listen to but it’s there limiting future listening options.
I try to go the extra mile, within my sense of what’s reasonable, to add significantly advanced components to my system. Network players and servers are hard to assess virtually but that’s all we have to go on these days. I simply don’t know who to trust. Frustrating for me with over 57 years of active listening.
Because Roon Labs have a strict set of protocols they expect brands to adhere to (such as CPU spec), this is why Innuos isn’t listed as a Roon Partner. A bad look? I doubt it. I’ve owned a Nucleus (which I loved) and I can confidently say that my Innuos ZEN MK3 outperforms it in every way, with one exception, database speed. But I think I can live with the slightly slower 0.75 of a second delay the Zen returns over my Nucleus any day of the week
Hi Popspin,
You’ve been a busy fellow! Thanks for the update.
I’ve done several upgrades to my system....mainly to its power supply and its streaming source. The Statement‘s engineering is all about minimising EMI and RFI, vibration, power supply noise and clock jitter and in providing excellent DC power. The Statement takes a data stream and provides super-accurate clocking, a very low noise environment and optimised Ethernet and USB output ports. In terms of it’s abilities there’s no doubt that the Statement’s performance is amongst the very best audio servers, but if you want to increase that level of performance markedly, look to the source and apply the same engineering logic!
Before I get into the upgrades, let me describe the sound.
Every recording is different. There’s no ‘system sound’ or ‘room sound’ because every recording and sometimes every track of a recording is different. Select a track, hit play and my listening environment metamorphizes into whatever is on the recording. Small and intimate, large and reverberant, infinite...or just left, centre, right or in the worst case, a narrow tunnel crowded with instruments apparently all standing and playing in the same space. Some tracks are superbly engineered with instruments beautifully placed in a believable soundscape. I can often hear the recording venue before the first note is played. The air in the venue has a texture and an acoustic. Each instrument has its own individual texture, ambience and acoustic and I hear the full envelope of every note...the initial pinpoint, often percussive initial strike, pluck, tap....the bloom into the note’s acoustic space and the gradual decay, which may have a directional component. While instruments integrate beautifully and create mesmerising rhythms, each instrument is pure and clear, thanks to its precise spacial attributes. Treble may be subtle, energetic, intense, but always sparkling and pure. The music has a magical sense of propulsion and energy such that listener involvement is wholly involuntary....music that’s impossible to ignore. You dont have to concentrate...the music just pulls you in and captivates your consciousness. On the right recordings the sound is wholly immersive, and there are no speaker or room boundaries for the sound to be outside of. Most sound engineers strive to make their recordings sound beautiful and that’s exactly how they sound. Instruments and voices have a huge presence and sound real. Most of the recordings I listen to are manipulated to sound captivating and beautiful and they have the ability to immediately create their own mood and emotions. I have never heard a show or dealer demo get anywhere near this level of performance.
So, what have I been doing?
Firstly mains supply. Power and earth comes into my house via an outside meter cabinet. As that power exits the meter, Live and Neutral are split into 2 x 25mm2 tails, one set going to my household consumer unit (circuit breaker cabinet) the other to my hi-fi CU. Both L and N go to a 60A Doepke RCCB differential switch. L is then taken to 2 16A GigaWatt RCBs then on to 2 6meter lengths of Acrolink P4030II 7N copper screened cable, which carries the power to 2 each Furutech Gold Duplex unswitched sockets. The return neutrals are taken straight back to the Doepke switch. No bus bars. Safety earths are taken directly back to the supplier earthing point in the meter cabinet. The result of this upgrade was noticed mainly in the bass and treble. I can hear 12KHz but it feels like 18Khz Such is the energy, shimmer and sparkle. Similarly one could describe the bass as seismic, due to it often being felt rather than just heard. Some recordings offer very low level infra-bass as the foundation to the soundscape. Devialet claim and provide graphs showing bass down to 17Hz from my Magico S1 MkIIs thanks to their SAM (Speaker Active Matching) technology. Sounds like a bit a wild claim until you actually hear what it does, then it sounds perfectly credible.
My second upgrade was to my network. Internet arrives into my house via 600Mbps cable into a cable modem (Virgin Superhub). From there the data stream passes to a TPLInk Archer AC5400 tri-band router based on the Broadcom BCM4709C0 chipset. The 2.4GHz and one 5Ghz band look after all household duties, while the second 5GHz band is dedicated to the hi-fi. The hi-fi signal is passed via wi-fi to a TPLink RE650 access point which is set up to receive only the 5GHz signal, no polling and the only client is the hi-fi. The RE650 is highly modified with an anti-vibration wall mount and dedicated LPS. From there a cable passes to an LPS powered AQVoxSE, then on to the Statement. All power supplies in the Network were Sean Jacob’s DC3s and all cables for the entire system, including network are Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Ref. The 3 network power supplies were sent back to Sean for modification into DC3/4 hybrids. Transformers were replaced with Statement class units, DC4 regulators were installed and DC4 footers and EMI cabinet lagging was installed. The units were re-wired with Mundorf Silver/Gold DC cabling. The DC cables themselves were built by Nenon, following his recipe of Mundorf Silver/Gold cable and JSSG360 screening.
The result of all this was to create a completely immersive, holographic 3D imaging as described above.
There’s one, possibly 2 further mods in the pipeline. The AQVoxSE switch will be replaced by a Nenon modified Buffalo 2016 switch with Pink Faun clock and Nenon’s capacitor board, powered by a dual rail Mundorf wired DC4 via Mundorf DC cables. The second mod is something I’ll be discussing over the next few weeks. Once I’ve got this complete I’m seriously planning on just listening to music. I’ve taken my system to a point I didn’t believe possible from digital but I’m tired of always waiting for stuff to run in. At some point in the future I do intend to try an optimised optical chain but that requires electricians entering my house and right now, with this Covid pandemic, that’s a no-no.
Regarding the power supply for a Melco switch....I think the above missive answers that question.
And 256 DSD? Plays fine on my system, although I have to say that if SQ is your main focus, Roon wouldn’t be my music player of choice. Simply too great a SQ sacrifice in order to get the better UI
I was just thinking about that last sentence....it should read: And 256 DSD? I believe it plays fine on my system although I never personally tried it“ In later posts you talk about 512DSD
I have a bit of a different attitude towards it. You‘re probably familiar with the phrase, ‘You can’t unhear something’ and that’s true for 512DSD. Once you’ve heard it you’re going to hear what’s missing from your system if you can’t play the higher bit-rates. But lets say you could play them. There’s hardly any material, its expensive to buy and because the choice is low, you end up buying things to get the format rather than it being music you really dig, at least that was my experience when CD first release then SACD, so I’m guessing its true for any format where choice is very limited.
I have a bit of a different attitude towards it. You‘re probably familiar with the phrase, ‘You can’t unhear something’ and that’s true for 512DSD. Once you’ve heard it you’re going to hear what’s missing from your system if you can’t play the higher bit-rates. But lets say you could play them. There’s hardly any material, its expensive to buy and because the choice is low, you end up buying things to get the format rather than it being music you really dig, at least that was my experience when CD first release then SACD, so I’m guessing its true for any format where choice is very limited.
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I'm truly sorry you've been sold the Innuos for something it isn't nor intends to be. The Innuos products are positioned as friendly, easy to use, capable devices, full featured, and with great sound quality to boot. Latest and greatest specs is not part of the Innuos ethos. If your dealer sold it to you that way, he should think better before using that approach.
You do not need a separate Roon Core machine with any Innuos device, be the $1250 mini or the almost $14k Statement. They are capable Roon Cores on their own, provided you don't do up/downsampling.
As Hydrology mentioned, the Innuos is not fully Roon certified as the CPU specs do not meet Roon's minimum requirement. Like I said earlier, this is by design, as they've chosen those CPUs for their sound, and because they believe they are enough for what most people will require. They had a choice, and they opted to stick with what they believe (low power CPUs) instead of just putting a Roon-sanctioned CPU in there.
There are outliers in every hobby. And DSD512 is as "outlier" as it gets. There simply isn't that much content worth bothering at that resolution, let alone DACs capable of playing such content. By the time DSD512 becomes a reality, if it ever does, I'm sure the Innuos machines at the time will be compatible with it. But today, and in the foreseeable future, DSD512 is a non-issue for 99.99% of the folks out there.
Ah, may I ask what DAC are you using now?
DSD 256 and DSD 512 play fine on the Innuos. It just can't upsample to those rates. Even a mac mini can have trouble upsampling to DSD512 depending on what filters are applied. We sell the sonicTransporter i9 just for upsampling to DSD512. It needs a full i9 desktop CPU to do DSD 512 + filter upsampling.
Of course that is a very noisy operation so you need a Roon Ready network player attached to your DAC to isolation the DAC from the Roon Core noise.
Of course that is a very noisy operation so you need a Roon Ready network player attached to your DAC to isolation the DAC from the Roon Core noise.
Hi Alex:
Let me start by saying I love listening to red book on my Statement. Nothing I’ve had before has sounded this good. Tidal streaming much better than expected. It constantly makes me smile.
I guess my perspective from the buyer’s side is a bit different then yours as a dealer. The Statement was sold as a most technologically advanced Roon certified server/player that was capable of handling known high res options. It was sold as a audio player/server/Roon core & player all in one product. No additional Roon core server needed.
I guess, in the end, it’s really not all that critical since I enjoy listening to it so much. Yet, it still bugs me.
If you needed to up/down sample, could Roon Core be on a big CPU desktop somewhere and then stream to the Statement? Would that still yield the benefits of a Statement in a more normal configuration?
The CPU they selected for the Statement plays a big part in you enjoying redbook so much. It's not a high power CPU by any means as the ultimate goal was sound quality. More powerful CPUs tend to generate more noise that could be harmful to sound quality.
The phrase "technologically advanced" should be assessed from a sound quality perspective. There are technologies in the Statement - such as the USB reclocker - that are most certainly "technologically advanced" when it comes to improving USB. The Statement's power supplies are also "technologically advanced". They are a big part of why your Statement sounds so good.
The inability to play a DSD512 file doesn't strike me as something that disqualifies the Statement from being considered to be ""technologically advanced". My 2008 Mac Pro can play a DSD512 file - but that doesn't make it "technologically advanced" when it comes to music playback.
Whomever sold you on the idea that the Statement was the "most technologically advanced" Roon Server probably owes you an apology though.
Hi Popsin,
It is able to handle high res options, as it's been explained many times, and it is able to run Roon Core very competently, with no need for a separate device.
I honestly fail to see what the issue is, specially since you admit you like the way it sounds.
Thank you, Kenny.
You wrote my thoughts exactly, only in a much, much better way than I ever could
Yes. The machine closely connected to your DAC is quite important, specially if USB is involved. As such, a remote Roon Core doing the heavy lifting (up/downsampling, DSP) and a Statement directly connected to your system will definitely sound better than that Roon Core plugged directly in, as you're leaving the noisy computer one link further down the network (and the Statement does have network filtration).
It seems rather obvious that the problem is not with Innuous but in the SR fuse. The ratings of "super fuses" has been discussed long ago in this forum. The problem is that there is little standardization of ratings for many so called high end fuses, which are generally OEM'd for the companies that sell them. Makes me wonder if it's too risky to buy fuses made by a company that sells little dots you can stick on your wall that magically transforms your room acoustics, and hope your 14K server doesn't blow up. You might try another brand of superfuse that Innuous recommends?
Alex, Marty, Kenny:
Thank you for your sane responses to my comments. They were thoughtful and well reasoned.
As noted earlier, the Statement has been a major contributor to whatever remains of my sanity after these past 9 months! As I look forward to future enhancements I have experiencing higher bit rates as an objective. Hence my issue with having adequate processing power for those bit rates. I’m just an ignorant hobbyist obsessed with complex technologies beyond my grasp. According to what you guys are telling me, I may have all I need for a source already.
Thank you for your sane responses to my comments. They were thoughtful and well reasoned.
As noted earlier, the Statement has been a major contributor to whatever remains of my sanity after these past 9 months! As I look forward to future enhancements I have experiencing higher bit rates as an objective. Hence my issue with having adequate processing power for those bit rates. I’m just an ignorant hobbyist obsessed with complex technologies beyond my grasp. According to what you guys are telling me, I may have all I need for a source already.
Wow! Simply wow! You are my hero!! You have accomplished what I can only dream about. I am picking around the edges, that’s it. Even so, my results have been very pleasing.
I do have a dedicated space, separate panel for the space, 11 dedicated circuits and earth ground. Shunyata outlets. Cable service, MeiCord network cable connection to system.
Whether it’s Melco or Buffalo, sounds like sending the unit in for upgrade is the way to proceed. I’ll read more about what you’ve done so I can figure out next steps. I will check the Sean Jacobs’ LPS too.
So much for a plug and play solution! It’s never that simple.
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