A world first? Passive v active isolation platforms test
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
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Ron, I love active
But the Stacore that I adore, and am now investing in two units, is passive
It has a lot of similarities w Vibraplane, having multiple inflatable bladders
Once pumped it's left pumped, topped up as and when
Where it scores over Vibraplane, and where I believe it gets its superiority over the active Kuraka is the broadband isolation twds 150Hz and beyond via:
95kg mass loaded slate
Constrained CLD tech/materials
Rollerblock coupled slate top plate for lateral isolation
Stacore secret sauce within the CLD structure
But the Stacore that I adore, and am now investing in two units, is passive
It has a lot of similarities w Vibraplane, having multiple inflatable bladders
Once pumped it's left pumped, topped up as and when
Where it scores over Vibraplane, and where I believe it gets its superiority over the active Kuraka is the broadband isolation twds 150Hz and beyond via:
95kg mass loaded slate
Constrained CLD tech/materials
Rollerblock coupled slate top plate for lateral isolation
Stacore secret sauce within the CLD structure
Lloyd, I just offloaded a bunch of unused audio gear to release the funds for the two Stacores
A good swap if ever there was one!
But the infection is taking, Im truly investigating how Im going to manage stretching to further platforms for my other gear
It's a faintly scary prospect
The way I see it is I've spent a big sum on the new room/acoustics
A similar sum on dedicated electrical feed to room/balanced pwr/dedicated lines/grounding
Why not a similar sum on Stacores and inert racking?
(Trying to get this all past my GF, oo-er!)
A good swap if ever there was one!
But the infection is taking, Im truly investigating how Im going to manage stretching to further platforms for my other gear
It's a faintly scary prospect
The way I see it is I've spent a big sum on the new room/acoustics
A similar sum on dedicated electrical feed to room/balanced pwr/dedicated lines/grounding
Why not a similar sum on Stacores and inert racking?
(Trying to get this all past my GF, oo-er!)
Stacore platform has maximum load capacity 65kg but your bpt is 85kg. It is over the limit. The effect of isolation should be less effective in the z direction?
I'm also interested in Stacore platform but ther max load capacity is too low for my equipments. Furthermore, the Stacore advanced platform is 95kg. Together with the equipment and platform, better make sure the shelf of the rack is able to hold 160kg.
I am with you on this. I spent 12-18 months on grounding and isolation. Mine's not got anywhere near the sophistication of Stacore, but i've got 'isolation sandwiches' for every piece of equipment...generally HRS and/or Stillpoints underneath and generally HRS/Artesania on top along with a roughly 90kg of mass damping weight. And I am extremely happy. Enjoy and look forward to reading more.
Adyc, there are two versions
The BASIC, delete top slate plate, 65kg, can support 100kg+
This is what I'm using for my 85kg bpt
This is sitting on the flr, so no rack limitations
My tt is 32kg, so this will go on the ADVANCED, w the top plate, well within the 65kg load limit
Planning to buy a Rogoz inert rack which can take up to 150kg per tier, to site my tt/Stacore Adv upon
Another Polish product
What is it w the Poles and their heroically gargantuan builds? LOL
The BASIC, delete top slate plate, 65kg, can support 100kg+
This is what I'm using for my 85kg bpt
This is sitting on the flr, so no rack limitations
My tt is 32kg, so this will go on the ADVANCED, w the top plate, well within the 65kg load limit
Planning to buy a Rogoz inert rack which can take up to 150kg per tier, to site my tt/Stacore Adv upon
Another Polish product
What is it w the Poles and their heroically gargantuan builds? LOL
Micro, by necessity, BASIC for bpt, ADV for tt
The upgrading bug never ends
But the serious drop in noise flr as a result is truly startling
The upgrading bug never ends
But the serious drop in noise flr as a result is truly startling
Lloyd, could see myself investigating mass loading gear to increase grounding of gear to Stacores, to max efficacy of the platforms
I'll be well into retirement before my wk is done!
I'll be well into retirement before my wk is done!
Marc, a few more questions, if I may. On what is the Stacore supported? Will you be placing your multiple Stacore units on a new rack system or are you somehow combining the Stillpoints (suspended?) rack with the Stackore? Also, can you stack the power supplies or the preamp with its ps and the phono amp with its ps to save from having to buy more Stacore platforms?
Incidentally, I believe the Vibraplane does in fact offer horizontal isolation. Somehow, the interface design between the footers (air bladders) and the metal frame provides isolation in the horizontal plane. I don't know the specifics. The Stacore roller bearings and slate top plate are an interesting solution. It reminds me of the interface between my speakers and their stands.
How do you inflate the Stacore and how long does it take before you need to top off the pressure? All three of my Vibraplanes are hooked up to a compressor. Two of the units have automatic leveling and filling, so they remain level and inflated. The third unit does not have these features, but it is hooked up to the compressor, so every so often, I check for level and push a button to inflate it with the compressor. The Vibraplane distributor suggested to me that for turntable use, the automatic level and fill features are important because of the change in load induced by flipping LPs, putting on the dust cover, record weight etc cause changes in pressure to require minor adjustments. My purely passive unit is under an amp which is just a static object, so it does not undergo these constant pressure changes.
I do think that an active solution would be simpler to operate and maintain. Also, depending on the room conditions and environmental vibrations encountered, active isolation may be more effective in some settings. This may be an example of no universal solution, but one dependent on particular condition.
It's a fascinating subject which, along with power delivery, is perhaps under appreciated. Thank you for initiating this discussion.
Incidentally, I believe the Vibraplane does in fact offer horizontal isolation. Somehow, the interface design between the footers (air bladders) and the metal frame provides isolation in the horizontal plane. I don't know the specifics. The Stacore roller bearings and slate top plate are an interesting solution. It reminds me of the interface between my speakers and their stands.
How do you inflate the Stacore and how long does it take before you need to top off the pressure? All three of my Vibraplanes are hooked up to a compressor. Two of the units have automatic leveling and filling, so they remain level and inflated. The third unit does not have these features, but it is hooked up to the compressor, so every so often, I check for level and push a button to inflate it with the compressor. The Vibraplane distributor suggested to me that for turntable use, the automatic level and fill features are important because of the change in load induced by flipping LPs, putting on the dust cover, record weight etc cause changes in pressure to require minor adjustments. My purely passive unit is under an amp which is just a static object, so it does not undergo these constant pressure changes.
I do think that an active solution would be simpler to operate and maintain. Also, depending on the room conditions and environmental vibrations encountered, active isolation may be more effective in some settings. This may be an example of no universal solution, but one dependent on particular condition.
It's a fascinating subject which, along with power delivery, is perhaps under appreciated. Thank you for initiating this discussion.
Excellent point adyc. I had to design and build my own rack to support my ballasted Vibraplane and SME turntable, a combined 400lbs on just the top shelf. This stuff can get very heavy. I also reinforced the floor with two concrete/steel loli columns directly under my audio rack.
Marc, I was advised, and subsequently discovered, that the performance of my Vibraplanes increased when I added steel ballast plates weighing 136 lbs. This brought the total load supported by each Vibraplane within a few pounds of the maximum design load, optimizing its performance. Have you discussed this with Stacore? Kinetic Systems, the manufacturer of my Vibraplanes made the ballast plates for me to match the units.
Peter, the Stacore Basic going to sit on the flr, but in time I may get an inert Rogoz spiked AmpStand to increase coupling to the flr, thru the carpet
I'm confident this will give some upstick, something to look fwd to
Stacore Adv will go on top tier of inert spiked Rogoz 3-tier, w space for phono and phono psu below
These Rogoz racks can take 150kg per tier, so I could go to 3 Stacores if I wanted
Jarek going to put his mind to some custom solutions for me
Re operation, I've only had the Stacore for a few days, so I have no idea how often I'll have to top up/re inflate, the word is a small burst every couple of months
Yes, active and passive may suit certain rigs and certain rooms
On balance the Stacore is leaner thru midbass than Kuraka
In my harsh, pinched and whiteish prev London apartment, the Kuraka might have been preferable
Certainly the Mooks DRs really worked there
Here in my fuller and warmer room, the more neutral Stacore is the winner
A big conclusion to draw is NOT to assume active will always beat passive
Try both as I did, and decide
I'm confident this will give some upstick, something to look fwd to
Stacore Adv will go on top tier of inert spiked Rogoz 3-tier, w space for phono and phono psu below
These Rogoz racks can take 150kg per tier, so I could go to 3 Stacores if I wanted
Jarek going to put his mind to some custom solutions for me
Re operation, I've only had the Stacore for a few days, so I have no idea how often I'll have to top up/re inflate, the word is a small burst every couple of months
Yes, active and passive may suit certain rigs and certain rooms
On balance the Stacore is leaner thru midbass than Kuraka
In my harsh, pinched and whiteish prev London apartment, the Kuraka might have been preferable
Certainly the Mooks DRs really worked there
Here in my fuller and warmer room, the more neutral Stacore is the winner
A big conclusion to draw is NOT to assume active will always beat passive
Try both as I did, and decide
Peter, will get onto it in time
I'm v new to all this
Just the revelation of performance envelope is enough for me at this point
And felt compelled to share the good news
G'night all!
I'm v new to all this
Just the revelation of performance envelope is enough for me at this point
And felt compelled to share the good news
G'night all!
In their website, basic platform has 65kg max capacity. Is it mistake? I hope Jarek can clarify.
None of these comparisons was done with your turntable. CD player or pre amp?
When are you going to put the Stacore under you table?
I for one have found isolation devices do sound different and react differently depending on the device.
Stillpoint Ultra works brilliantly on my preamp, however sounded worse under my turntables.
My DIY compression spring platform ( el cheapo Minus K) works sensationally with my TW Acustik table and just recently my new Technics sp10 mk3 with Thales tonearm.
When are you going to put the Stacore under you table?
I for one have found isolation devices do sound different and react differently depending on the device.
Stillpoint Ultra works brilliantly on my preamp, however sounded worse under my turntables.
My DIY compression spring platform ( el cheapo Minus K) works sensationally with my TW Acustik table and just recently my new Technics sp10 mk3 with Thales tonearm.
Aydc, the ADVANCED (ie incl top Rollerblock coupled slate platform) has a max load capacity of 65kg
Enough for 90% of gear
For components in excess of 65kg, stick w the BASIC (minus top plate), can then go 100kg+
Enough for 90% of gear
For components in excess of 65kg, stick w the BASIC (minus top plate), can then go 100kg+
XV-1, I thought I mentioned I did the trial w both cdp and bpt? Ive just done my longest listening w the bpt isolated
I've tried both active (Accurion i4) and passive (Speirs and Robertson) under my tt in the past, and both were stellar
Have no fears re Stacore Adv under tt
I've tried both active (Accurion i4) and passive (Speirs and Robertson) under my tt in the past, and both were stellar
Have no fears re Stacore Adv under tt
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