Aesthetix Io Users Group

[OGH]

There is something with the Io that brings out the little "extra" in the music. So I am enjoying tracks like these, World Party: What does this mean now. First, listen to the Youtube version

Second, compare with the same track played through the Io from the LP (Dumbing up, recently reissued).
Does your impression move from "mediocre" to "sublime"? Probably not. If you don't like this music, better sound probably won't help much. The sound quality does not, by itself, make for such big steps. These mainly depend on the quality of the music, to you, and your ears. But there are shades of gray. Maybe you still think this remains mediocre. Some critics have called their music "pastiche". But it does gain depth and meaning, with better pure analogue sound. Arguably, it becames a much more profound experience. In my case, listening to World Party on the newly remastered LPs, I get more sense and more respect for what they tried to do. Thanks, partly, to the Io. In each case - artist, track - the benefit may be small, or incremental - but the overall net result is that almost all of my LPs sound - at least - "interesting". Which is more than I can say of digital streaming. Even if I now have a nice-sounding streamer/dac. Which I tend to turn off, if I have the same track on LP. No comparison.

An audio friend tells me: no wonder, since you have invested much more in the analog than the digital chain. He is right maybe. I doubt it, though. Even with a top dollar dac and streamer, I would probably prefer the analog way. I have not read of Io users who sold the unit due to getting better sound from their digital chain.

 

[OGH]

Here is a table regarding tubes in the Io. Please correct or fill in.

Function	Position	Tube type	Detail – function	Plate voltage	Comment
Gain stage 1	V1	12ax7 (12ax7LP or E83CCS)	V1 and 2 parallel gain, up to 40 db	180-200V	Needs very low noise
	V2	Like V1	Like V1	180-200V	Needs very low noise
Stage 2	V3	12ax7 (12ax7 or E83CCS)	Gain 20 db	280-300V	Needs fairly low noise
	V4	Like V3	Current source for V3		Needs fairly low noise
RIAA circuit
Stage 3	V5	Like V3	Gain 20 db	280-300V	Needs fairly low noise
	V6	Like V3	Current for V5		Needs fairly low noise
Output buffer	V7	6922	Buffer (no gain in V7)
	V8	6SN7	Current for V7		Needs moderately low noise

 

[oldvinyl]

Here is a table regarding tubes in the Io. Please correct or fill in.

Function	Position	Tube type	Detail – function	Plate voltage	Comment
Gain stage 1	V1	12ax7 (12ax7LP or E83CCS)	V1 and 2 parallel gain, up to 40 db	180-200V	Needs very low noise
	V2	Like V1	Like V1	180-200V	Needs very low noise
Stage 2	V3	Like V1	Gain 20 db	280-300V	Needs fairly low noise
	V4	Like V1	Current source for V3		Needs fairly low noise
RIAA circuit
Stage 3	V5	Like V1	Gain 20 db	280-300V	Needs fairly low noise
	V6	Like V1	Current for V5		Needs fairly low noise
Output buffer	V7	6922	Buffer (no gain in V7)
	V8	6SN7	Current for V7		Needs moderately low noise

Aesthetix's recommendations per the Io manual on their web site is a little different than this table.
V1 and V2 are 12AX7LP, 12AX7 or E83CCS

V3 and V4 are E83CCS or 12AX7 (not 12AX7LP)
V5 and V6 are E83CCS or 12AX7 (not 12AX7LP)

From what I can find on the web about the 12AX7LP and 12AX7LPS: The LPS designation stands for Long Plate/Spiral filament. A 12AX7LPS is a 12AX7 with a long plate and the quiet spiral wound filament (a.k.a. heater). The same tube without the spiral filament is known as the 12AX7LP. The spiral filament reduces hum and the longer plates produce a more linear response . The longer plates can be more susceptible to vibration. I am not sure what the E83CCS would be. E83CC ie Euro equivalent of 12AX7. The question is - why not a 12AX7LPS in V1 and V2?

From my experience, a red base 5692 is a ruggedized 6SN7 and works very well in the V8 position.

Also - power supply tubes are just as critical. Low noise and low microphony 12AX7 are best. I was surprised when I put some of my phono stage 12AX7s in the power supply. They has been selected for phono application, but really improved the sound when used in the power supplies. I replaced the EL34 with KT-66 long ago (check with Aesthetix for compatibility) .

 

[OGH]

Thanks, Oldvinyl. I have corrected the table regarding the v3-6 tube type. Note that the Io manual, page 9 says slightly different things. In the illustration, it says 12ax7lp for gain stage one, but in the text below, it just says 12ax7. The main point is that 12ax7 tubes can be tried, including various NOS tubes.

I got the Io back from factory repair in 2017, including a new stock tube set. This was with JJ ECC83S tubes in v1 - v6. I wasn't a fan of JJ, but at once noted that these were much more quiet than anything I had tried before. According to Aesthetix, they were hand-selected - they cannot promise such a good result, if users just buy the JJs from the shelf.

From what I have seen of web debate, many think the JJ ECC803S, with slightly less gain, is a better tube than the 83S, but I don't know if anyone has tried it in the Io. Some have found the JJ ECC83S to sound too dark, or murky. That was not the case with the selected set I got from Aesthetix. Later, through my audio friend Audioquest4life, I got a quad of Sovtek 12ax7lps. They seem to work ok, but I've not listened much, so far. This is so, since I managed to get good Philips Herleen ca 1970 NOS. They are almost as quiet as the JJs, the noise is "to live with", and the musicality, to my ears, is much better. Not quite the Telefunken level, perhaps, but maybe a touch more direct, rock-oriented, engaging. For me, the gap between the NOS and the new tubes (JJs or Sovtek or China) is larger than the difference between the new tubes. Here, tastes differ - I know.

Thanks also for the power supply tip. Maybe time to check the tubes, there, and try some of the NOS 'leftovers' from the Io.

 

[oldvinyl]

Thanks, Oldvinyl. I have corrected the table regarding the v3-6 tube type. Note that the Io manual, page 9 says slightly different things. In the illustration, it says 12ax7lp for gain stage one, but in the text below, it just says 12ax7. The main point is that 12ax7 tubes can be tried, including various NOS tubes.

I got the Io back from factory repair in 2017, including a new stock tube set. This was with JJ ECC83S tubes in v1 - v6. I wasn't a fan of JJ, but at once noted that these were much more quiet than anything I had tried before. According to Aesthetix, they were hand-selected - they cannot promise such a good result, if users just buy the JJs from the shelf.

From what I have seen of web debate, many think the JJ ECC803S, with slightly less gain, is a better tube than the 83S, but I don't know if anyone has tried it in the Io. Some have found the JJ ECC83S to sound too dark, or murky. That was not the case with the selected set I got from Aesthetix. Later, through my audio friend Audioquest4life, I got a quad of Sovtek 12ax7lps. They seem to work ok, but I've not listened much, so far. This is so, since I managed to get good Philips Herleen ca 1970 NOS. They are almost as quiet as the JJs, the noise is "to live with", and the musicality, to my ears, is much better. Not quite the Telefunken level, perhaps, but maybe a touch more direct, rock-oriented, engaging. For me, the gap between the NOS and the new tubes (JJs or Sovtek or China) is larger than the difference between the new tubes. Here, tastes differ - I know.

Thanks also for the power supply tip. Maybe time to check the tubes, there, and try some of the NOS 'leftovers' from the Io.

OGH - yes, I agree that the manual is confusing. If I recall, prior versions of the manual were specific about which position to use 12AX7LP versus 12AX7LPS.

 

[audioquest4life]

There is something with the Io that brings out the little "extra" in the music. So I am enjoying tracks like these, World Party: What does this mean now. First, listen to the Youtube version

Second, compare with the same track played through the Io from the LP (Dumbing up, recently reissued).
Does your impression move from "mediocre" to "sublime"? Probably not. If you don't like this music, better sound probably won't help much. The sound quality does not, by itself, make for such big steps. These mainly depend on the quality of the music, to you, and your ears. But there are shades of gray. Maybe you still think this remains mediocre. Some critics have called their music "pastiche". But it does gain depth and meaning, with better pure analogue sound. Arguably, it becames a much more profound experience. In my case, listening to World Party on the newly remastered LPs, I get more sense and more respect for what they tried to do. Thanks, partly, to the Io. In each case - artist, track - the benefit may be small, or incremental - but the overall net result is that almost all of my LPs sound - at least - "interesting". Which is more than I can say of digital streaming. Even if I now have a nice-sounding streamer/dac. Which I tend to turn off, if I have the same track on LP. No comparison.

An audio friend tells me: no wonder, since you have invested much more in the analog than the digital chain. He is right maybe. I doubt it, though. Even with a top dollar dac and streamer, I would probably prefer the analog way. I have not read of Io users who sold the unit due to getting better sound from their digital chain.

Hi OGH,

Thanks for your update and keeping the Io user forum alive with your technical updates. I greatly appreciate it.

I have been out recovering from back surgery. I had L5 artificial disc replacement on 1 July so I am taking it easy for now.

I like the music so much from World Party that I ordered it. Thanks for sharing. Ant wait to hear it on my system through the Io. This type of music interests me a lot since I lived in Europe for much of my life and loved all types of Euro music. Although they are an American group, called Sparks…the music sounds similar to Euro stuff from the early 80s. I like this music so much that on Amazon Prime, I selected Sparks and their station had very similar music for hours across the globe. I also purchased an extended club mix version of this song.

Sparks “When do I get to do sing my way”

I am still very satisfied with the Sovtek 12AX7LPS in V1/V2. So much so, that I keep forgetting to experiment with other tubes like you and others have. I guess I should look at the tube market again to see what to order and when I am ready, swap out tubes. For now, enjoying life and all things as they are.

 

[audioquest4life]

OGH - yes, I agree that the manual is confusing. If I recall, prior versions of the manual were specific about which position to use 12AX7LP versus 12AX7LPS.

Also, my original V1/V2 tubes back in 2005/06 when I first Purchased the Io, were 12AX7LPS. When I asked later about why they are no longer used, I was told they had some bad batches for a while. That’s history now…the newer 12AX7LPS are far more reliable, at least the ones I purchased that are low microphones, low noise and matched.

 

[Kcin]

LPS were the the standard V1/V2 for the Io for quite some time- I still have mine- probably with zero hours as promptly rolled them.

@audioquest4life , I hope you recover fully for life full of enjoyment. Best wishes.

 

[audioquest4life]

LPS were the the standard V1/V2 for the Io for quite some time- I still have mine- probably with zero hours as promptly rolled them.

@audioquest4life , I hope you recover fully for life full of enjoyment. Best wishes.

@Kcin,

Thank you. I hope to be able to walk again soon without pain. It’s been a daily journey of ups and down. My friend visited me this past weekend and I was able to listen to some music on the big rig…what joy music brings. We played Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Child.

 

[OGH]

@Kcin,

Thank you. I hope to be able to walk again soon without pain. It’s been a daily journey of ups and down. My friend visited me this past weekend and I was able to listen to some music on the big rig…what joy music brings. We played Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Child.

I also wish you all the best. Be patient. I had a back operation some years ago, and - over time - became much better afterwards.
Great to hear of another World Party listener. We'll soon take over the world! I agree about Sparks, also.

 

[audioquest4life]

I also wish you all the best. Be patient. I had a back operation some years ago, and - over time - became much better afterwards.
Great to hear of another World Party listener. We'll soon take over the world! I agree about Sparks, also.

Thank you. Just received the World Party. Warming up the tubes now…nice thing about the cane is that I can turn on the switches for everything down low with the tip of the cane. Just have to adjust myself to sit straight up. Also in my box today was some Doors 45RPM editions.

 

[audioquest4life]

I played the World Party record yesterday evening and realized I ordered the wrong one, World Party Private Revolution, instead of World Party Dumbing Up which has the song “What does it mean now” that I liked. I Ordered the correct version overnight express and hope to have it today or Saturday.

But, the Private Revolution is also a great album. Going towards the end of the first side, it seems each song became more enchanting. The Io was able to display the harmonies, distinct instruments, and warm voicing in a way that had me mesmerized and teary eyed by the end of this song…maybe the pain meds added to my heightened sense of melancholy experiences with this music…but I am sure the goosebumps and euphoria I feel with this music is a result of me mostly liking it.

@OGH

Thank you for introducing me to néw music.

 

[audioquest4life]

While I am home recovering from back surgery, decided to splurge on next generation power cables from Shunyata.

I ordered 5 Sigma NR V2s and 1 Sigma V2 XC. Two V2s into the McIntosh amps, two V2s into the Aesthetix Io Eclipse dual power supply phono amp, 1 Sigma NR V2 into the Octave Jubilee reference preamp, and the Sigma V2 XC into the PS audio power conditioner. Can’t wait to upgrade from my older, and I mean real old Anacondas, Phythons and Black Mambas.

This will be the first time I made such a bold move in purchasing so many power cables at one time as I always tested first and incrementally made changes that I think were sound worthy. Should all be here within two weeks.

 

[oldvinyl]

While I am home recovering from back surgery, decided to splurge on next generation power cables from Shunyata.

I ordered 5 Sigma NR V2s and 1 Sigma V2 XC. Two V2s into the McIntosh amps, two V2s into the Aesthetix Io Eclipse dual power supply phono amp, 1 Sigma NR V2 into the Octave Jubilee reference preamp, and the Sigma V2 XC into the PS audio power conditioner. Can’t wait to upgrade from my older, and I mean real old Anacondas, Phythons and Black Mambas.

This will be the first time I made such a bold move in purchasing so many power cables at one time as I always tested first and incrementally made changes that I think were sound worthy. Should all be here within two weeks.

Please keep us posted on how you like the cables.

wishing you a speedy and thorough recovery

 

[OGH]

My Shunyata Taipan Helix is one of the best among my mid-level power cords.

 

[OGH]

Recording from the Io

Anyone have experience and can chime in? I record my vinyl LPs to digital, through the Io, through my Einstein the tube mk 2 preamp, and then, to the recorder (Tascam DA-3000). Is it a better idea, to record directly from the Io? I have the Einstein into the recording chain due to a better all in all sound when I listen directly, from my speakers. But it may be, "pure" Io recordings would be more - sorry for the term - "future proof'". I could get a new and better preamp, for playback. Opinions, ideas?
I asked Einstein support about how to record from this preamp, and to my surprise, they answered that the "amp out" is better than the "line out" - so this is what I have used. And I agree - it gives the best sonic performance. Although as a recording person, I am used to using the neutral line out.

 

[dan31]

I recommend recording directly from the Io. I use both the RCA and XLR outputs on the Io. The XLR goes to my preamp and rca directly to a headphone amplifier. The headphone amp has two inputs. Direct from the Io and the tape output from my preamp so I can experiment. Subtle difference but I prefer the direct from Io.

The input impedance on your recorder should be above 10K ohms but it should be a good exercise.

 

[OGH]

Thanks, @dan31. I will check the direct route. I was surprised that Volker at Einstein recommends recording from the preamp outputs to the amps, rather than the line out - but he is right, it sounds better.

Generally I assume that the connection that sounds best with direct playback will also sound best for recording. But that may not always be the case. With the connection I use now (Io xlr out to Einstein, and Einstein xlr out to the Tascam recorder), I hear not only what the Io does with the music, but also what the Einstein (including its volume controls) does to the signal from the Io. I have been fairly happy with the Einstein, after using the Io as a standalone preamp for several years, but I see that e g Audioquest4life in this thread wasn't quite convinced. I know that Aesthetix does suggest a high quality preamp into the chain, like their Callisto. The Atma-sphere MP1 would probably also do well. Yet these two-box solutions are a bit too much for my rack - I already have a lot of tubes in big boxes (Einstein is one-box, with s-state power supplies). I might reconsider, if I got a good offer.

I like the "direct" philosophy - as far as it applies. "Straight wire with gain" - or, in the case of recording, "straight wire" with no more than needed gain. I thought this was standard, it is called "line out", but apparently not. The "processed" sound from the preamp outlets may be better.

But consider what happens when you play your vinyl recording, made from the Io, connected to the preamp, and then to the preamp volume controlled outlets - on the same system. Now, the signal gets 2 x the preamp "treatment". This makes me pause. Maybe the "pristine" Io signal is the way to go. Even if it sounds a bit thin and ghostly, to my ears. This sonic picture does seem to have more information, all in all, than what comes out of the Io + Einstein combination. Although, for playback, I prefer the Einstein in the chain, with some more muscle and body to the sound.

So here is the dilemma. If I playback my "combi" recording (Io + E) in a system with a lower quality preamp/integrated amp, things are mostly fine, I can turn up the signal and turn down the demand on the playback chain so that the troubles in the lower level system become less obtrusive. Playing it back in the same system where it was recorded is not the best idea (x 2 Einstein treatment). And if, some day, I get a better preamp than the Einstein, I will regret having recorded with this "combi mix", stuck with the Einstein part of the sound.

On the other hand, I do like much of what the Einstein does with the Io sound, so I am not sure. I should test it. A practical problem intervenes. I may have to reconsider the rack system. My stereo is up against the wall and changing cables can be extremely awkward, especially since I have back problems. So experimenting with different connections takes time. It is living room, not a dedicated listening room - I cannot have components around the floor. But if I had started anew today, I would have recognized the surprisingly constant need to change things at the back of the components. My idea that this would be more like "set and forget" was wrong. Maybe I would have put the rack on wheels. Or each part of it - it has three main parts, each with 4 shelves. Very heavy stone rack type of setup. Sounds good when all is OK, but a pain to experiment with.

 

[musicfirst1]

Hi Guys,

I have a client who owns the IO and loves it. He recently tried a Aries Cerat Incito S, which he absolutely loved on his digital set-up but his comment was (and I quote) "A little bit of the magic was lost" when mating the fully balanced IO with the pseudo balanced input of the Incito S. (pin 2 driven hot with pin 3 not truly 'cold').

He played extensively with the gain of the IO and the gain of the Incito S and felt that it was not related to a mismatch there.

Stavros Danos of Aries Cerat says this can be a problem sometimes as some truly differentially balanced devices prefer a truly balanced upstream input.

The Incito S can be ordered with a fully balanced input option at an additional cost, but I thought I'd ask others their thoughts first.

Thanks.

Kerry

 

[dan31]

If your client is not struggling for gain perhaps try the rca to rca single ended connection. If they prefer the drive of the Io XLR output the preamp could add the balanced input, but that's likely a transformer and could be not worth the effort if the preamp is a single ended design.