Aesthetix Io Users Group

[Ron Resnick]

Don and I thought we had a noisy tube in the Io. It turned out to be a problem with single-ended interconnect.

Now that the Io case is open, should I try replacing the four V1 and V2 tubes with NOS Telefunkens or NOS Amperex?

What are the sonic pros and cons of Telefunkens or Amperex, and each of them versus the already quiet stock tubes?

The system is already plenty transparent, and I don't want to do anything that would add brightness or edginess. Should I put back in the quiet stock tubes (JJ I think)? Or should I put in the Telefunkens or Amperex?

(I appreciate that ideally I would experiment with everything, but I don't have the patience for that right now. So some tubes have to go back into V1 and V2 in the Io. Which tubes should I put in?)

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

contact Andy Bouwman at Vintage tube services

Vintage Tube Services – Tubes you can trust! Providing vintage audio tubes (new old stock) to audiophiles around the world. Celebrating 28 years of technical knowledge, experience, expertise, and tubes you can trust. For a free phone consultation

he has/had extensive knowledge of which tubes fitted where in the Io circuit

 

[OGH]

The first thing I would do is to check the Telefunkens and Amperex for noise. In V1 and V2 in the Io. If they are noisy, I would stay with the JJs. I like both Tele and Amperex, T sounds a bit more refined.

 

[oldvinyl]

Don and I thought we had a noisy tube in the Io. It turned out to be a problem with single-ended interconnect.

Now that the Io case is open, should I try replacing the four V1 and V2 tubes with NOS Telefunkens or NOS Amperex?

What are the sonic pros and cons of Telefunkens or Amperex, and each of them versus the already quiet stock tubes?

The system is already plenty transparent, and I don't want to do anything that would add brightness or edginess. Should I put back in the quiet stock tubes (JJ I think)? Or should I put in the Telefunkens or Amperex?

(I appreciate that ideally I would experiment with everything, but I don't have the patience for that right now. So some tubes have to go back into V1 and V2 in the Io. Which tubes should I put in?)

I have never had a tube add brightness or edginess to the Io, at least in system to my ears (and all other applicable caveats).

Since the Io is open .... just plug in either set and turn on the Io with the lid still off and while the Io is off. Be careful to keep your hands out of the Io while it is on. I run the Io with the top off when changing tubes and trying various combinations.

As to whether the Tele or Amperex would be as quiet as the stock tubes - that depends on how well graded and sorted they were when you bought them.

Lots of info on tube selection and preference earlier in this thread, happy reading.

 

[Ron Resnick]

contact Andy Bouwman at Vintage tube services

Vintage Tube Services – Tubes you can trust! Providing vintage audio tubes (new old stock) to audiophiles around the world. Celebrating 28 years of technical knowledge, experience, expertise, and tubes you can trust. For a free phone consultation

he has/had extensive knowledge of which tubes fitted where in the Io circuit

Thank you. I know Andy.

I'm just asking for people with experience with different tubes in V1 and V2.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have never had a tube add brightness or edginess to the Io, at least in system to my ears (and all other applicable caveats).

Since the Io is open .... just plug in either set and turn on the Io with the lid still off and while the Io is off. Be careful to keep your hands out of the Io while it is on. I run the Io with the top off when changing tubes and trying various combinations.

As to whether the Tele or Amperex would be as quiet as the stock tubes - that depends on how well graded and sorted they were when you bought them.

Lots of info on tube selection and preference earlier in this thread, happy reading.

Thank you. And your post reminded me that I have screenshots of Albert Porter's legacy information about Io tube swaps.

 

[jim94025]

One never knows how a particular make of tube will sound without really trying it in your IO. Other's opinions only go so far.

 

[Ron Resnick]

As long as the Io is open, I may try a major tube swap:

V1, V2 Telefunken

V3, V4 Mullard

V5, V6 Amperex



I am hesitant because Jim White did an amazing job with the stock tubes, and the Io presently is amazingly quiet. I'm really reluctant to disturb that -- until a stock tube becomes noisy someday, and I am compelled to make a swap.

 

[jjhf1234]

I used vintage NOS Tele’s in v1 & v2 for years and while the sound was amazing the thought of trying to replicate that sound with more NOS Tele’s down the road made me swap to Gold Lion 12ax7 cryos. Was very happy with the Gold Lions but haven’t used the IO in two years now due to the convenience of the Levinson integrated with phono. Need to get motivated to box the IO up and send to Glenn for the updates/full retube but life has been hectic. Soon, very soon.

 

[Ron Resnick]

haven’t used the IO in two years now

 

[jjhf1234]

Sad face indeed. Need to get it down to Aesthetix asap to start the upgrade process

 

[oldvinyl]

Thank you. And your post reminded me that I have screenshots of Albert Porter's legacy information about Io tube swaps.

Brent Jesse's web site has detailed and accurate descriptions of the various tube "flavors".
12AX7 descriptions

 

[oldvinyl]

As long as the Io is open, I may try a major tube swap:

V1, V2 Telefunken

V3, V4 Mullard

V5, V6 Amperex



I am hesitant because Jim White did an amazing job with the stock tubes, and the Io presently is amazingly quiet. I'm really reluctant to disturb that -- until a stock tube becomes noisy someday, and I am compelled to make a swap.

If you have matched quads, then I would recommend starting with V1, V2, V3, V4 all from the same manufacturer. That will give you a better sense of what each tube brings to the end sound.

You would get different sonic results just shuffling the order.
V1, V2 Amperex
V3, V4 Telefunken
V5, V6 Mullard

V1, V2 Mullard
V3, V4 Amperex
V5, V6 Telefunken

V1 Telefunken
V2 Amperex
V3 Telefunken
V4 Amperex
V5 Mullard
V6 Mullard

etc

Note that V1 and V2 are the two most critical for low noise. They also set the overall character and tone of the presentation.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you, gentlemen, for this helpful information!

Right now the Io is so quiet with the stock tubes Don talked me out of doing the swap.

At least for today.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Brent Jesse's web site has detailed and accurate descriptions of the various tube "flavors".
12AX7 descriptions

I know Brent's descriptions well. Thank you!

Still hard to predict whether to put Mullard first and Telefunken second, or Telefunken first and Mullard second.

 

[OGH]

Interesting. Does this mean that your Tele and Mullards have ca the same background noise level? Not so much worse than the JJs? I would try the most quiet NOS in V1 and 2, and go from there.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I don't know anything about the noise level of any of my NOS tubes. But almost all of them are from Brent Jesse so they should be good.

 

[OGH]

Well - it could be good, but only you will know, testing in the Io itself. Easy to do. Even better if you have a sound level meter.
Turn the volume up until you hear the background noise. Without playing music. Note the volume level and the decibel level in your meter / mobile phone. Next, try the alternative tubes. Probably your ears will tell you what you need even without measurement. Be careful, however, since the Io turned up towards max volume without music input is extremely sensitive.

 

[OGH]

Like you, I have quiet JJ tubes for v1 and v2, supplied by Aesthetix. I use these as a baseline. I then listen to the noise level of different NOS tubes. Since the noise level is supremely important in these positions. In my case, Amperex (Philips Herleen factory 1960s) performed fine at first, yet became more noisy faster than the Telefunkens I have used. Maybe I was unlucky. I liked their sound, it was maybe even better for rock and pop than Telefunken. Although all in all i like T best. By experimenting with NOS tubes in v1-v2, you get into a debate "how much noise do I tolerate, in order to get more musical sound". Which is up to you and your tastes. One of the great things about the Io: you are free to experiment, and choose.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Oh yes, very easy to tell noise myself.

Don and I are just very surprised at how quiet my Io. As I said when I first got it this is just another one of the ways I would never have recognized my new Io Eclipse as an Io.