Aesthetix Io Users Group
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Yes, on 7308.
Ron, I think some of these tube preferences are going to be dependent upon whether one prefer Mullard or Telefunken sound. See my post 703 for what I tested.
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Ron, I think some of these tube preferences are going to be dependent upon whether one prefer Mullard or Telefunken sound. See my post 703 for what I tested.
Aesthetix Io Users Group
Did you try the ED1 Mullard's, if not all bets are off. I can't claim to recall date codes from the EL34s I tried 15-20 years ago. That said, finding such a pair, let alone a matched quad these days would be difficult. All in all, I am quite happy with the bass, heft, grit, dynamics, low noise...
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That’s also a great sounding tube. My ears still prefer the CCa.
I would maybe hear more differences among NOS tubes if I had a lower output cartridge (than Lyra Atlas). Or I am less discerning than I was.
Anyway, I now live by two main rules:
First, v1-v2 is where changing tubes makes the greatest difference. And ultra low noise is required, if not, the rest is not interesting. I have NOS tubes that are very musical, they can function well other places in my system, but I cannot stand their background noise in Io v1-v2.
Second, the rest of the tubes also play a role (of course) but it is more a matter of taste. Generally NOS can be better than new, but it depends. Albert Porter had a famous 'long post' about how changing tubes along the signal chain changed the sound and how one change depended on others. Very complex...
Anyway, I now live by two main rules:
First, v1-v2 is where changing tubes makes the greatest difference. And ultra low noise is required, if not, the rest is not interesting. I have NOS tubes that are very musical, they can function well other places in my system, but I cannot stand their background noise in Io v1-v2.
Second, the rest of the tubes also play a role (of course) but it is more a matter of taste. Generally NOS can be better than new, but it depends. Albert Porter had a famous 'long post' about how changing tubes along the signal chain changed the sound and how one change depended on others. Very complex...
Ron,As long as the Io is open, I may try a major tube swap:
V1, V2 Telefunken
V3, V4 Mullard
V5, V6 Amperex
I am hesitant because Jim White did an amazing job with the stock tubes, and the Io presently is amazingly quiet. I'm really reluctant to disturb that -- until a stock tube becomes noisy someday, and I am compelled to make a swap.
That is a great perspective. I too feel the same way about the Io. In my years of ownership and experiences, I zeroed in on swapping the V1 and V2 with Sovtek 12AX7 LPS for the very reason you stated above…quietness. It seems every time I get the Io back after an update and new tubes, those positions Seem to be the ones where noise would start forming after a few months. I swapped the Sovteks in place and voila, no noise and great music. That works for me. I just don’t want to spend time experimenting anymore, I just am too anxious to listen to music. With this combo, my system still blooms, sounds organic, and has excellent resolution. I do not feel that I am missing that last iota of musical greatness by not having a NOS tube, because the quietness and complete darkness in background noise more than exemplifies the merits of the Sovteks in those positions. They are also readily available.
I only have the Sovteks in the V1 and V2 locations. My initial experiences with the Sovteks being used in the Io began in 2008. I had succumbed to the peer pressure to tube roll. Also, I had a slight tube rush symptom that was problematic.
These were my initial thoughts on the Io tube rolling experiments I did back in 2008.
This is my follow up with my interpretation of the sound based on more detailed analysis. My thoughts back then pretty much mirror my thoughts today regarding the Sovtek 12AX7 LPS being used in V1/V2.
Io tube rolling initial thoughts 2008
Io tube rolling results 2008
I replaced the stock EH 6922s with NOS Amperex USN CEP 7308s from Frank at SoundLumia in Torrance, CA.
Which tubes did the Telefunkens replace in V1 and V2?
How did your general noise level change with the Io wide open between the Telefunkens and the tubes they replaced in V1 and V2?
How did the Telefunkens in V1 and V2 change the sound?
The Telefunkens replaced a noisy quad of JJ tubes.
Still running the JJs in the second gain stage, but plan on replacing soon once I decide which way to go.
I was running my IO at 80db gain as that gave the best dynamics with my Koetsu Jade Platinum. With the JJs in the first gain stage it was just too much noise for me. Replacing them with the Telefunkens brought the noise down significantly. I'm using a set of 6922 Siemens in the V7 positions and Sylvania 6SN7GTA chrome tops in the V8 positions.
I added all of these tubes one set a a time. The biggest difference for me was the reduction of noise after replacing V1 and V2. The TELEs give me a more open slightly sweeter sound, but also more dynamic, this complimented my system perfectly.
In my latest configuration I’m using a Bent Audio Silver moving coil step up wired for 1:20 with 26db of gain. The attenuation on the IO is now set to ATT 5 overall gain of 50db + 26db on my step up has me at 76db total gain. I removed V5 and V6 per the manual.
Doing this was a huge improvement in noise, basically solid state phono levels. The soundstage\detail increased noticeably. Everything just sounds a bit more natural especially in the high frequencies. The bass is also tighter deeper, more extended.
I also received the best sound from the IO using a EMIA Silver step up and 50db setting.
I have en route a matched pair of RCA 5692 JAN military redbases. I will compare these to the Raytheon short bottles presently in V8.
Looking forward to your experience with the RCA 5692 Red Base in V8. I just acquired a pair as well and will compare them to the Sylvania JAN-CHS VT-231 6SN7GT's currently in that position.
That is interesting. So without even using the Io as intended you prefer the sound of its 50dB of gain to other tube phono stages?
The Sylvania VT-231 is a favorite of mine with both Atma-Sphere pre-amp and MA1 mono blocks. Love their tonality and overall linearity. Hope they prove out for you.
After several months of waiting, my Io arrived back last week with new transformers in both PS , new heater capacitors and new grounding scheme. I had already had the Partial Eclipse done a few years ago. This brings the Io up to current Eclipse levels.
I now have the joy of clearing my stand of the current set up and repositioning the Io and the 2 power supplies. Its been away for a long time. I had been using the Klyne 7 series and the Allnic 7000 in the interim on loan. The Klyne has been stellar with the DaVa and I can whole heartedly recommend that combination with a good SUT.
I am not sure whether I lost some strength while waiting but the new iron in Io PSs seem to add 10 or 15lbs to each box. They seemed to have gained some weight on the trip back.
Looking forward to see what this upgrade does.
I now have the joy of clearing my stand of the current set up and repositioning the Io and the 2 power supplies. Its been away for a long time. I had been using the Klyne 7 series and the Allnic 7000 in the interim on loan. The Klyne has been stellar with the DaVa and I can whole heartedly recommend that combination with a good SUT.
I am not sure whether I lost some strength while waiting but the new iron in Io PSs seem to add 10 or 15lbs to each box. They seemed to have gained some weight on the trip back.
Looking forward to see what this upgrade does.
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