Aesthetix Io Users Group

[christensenleif@msn.com]

"plaster on the wound"?!
are you Norwegian?

 

[OGH]

Did the ASR mini basis - a solid-state Riaa stage - sound less precise or detailed, compared to the Io? Maybe not so much; these aspects were quite good. A more recent versions - mk 3 - is supposed to sound a bit better. But the ASR clearly had less ability to engage my preamp and amps and project a large dimensional soundstage that sounded good and engaging in my room. Although, the detail was there, so to speak, "in principle". Yet the experienced detail and focus was less than with the Io. Even if maybe fairly equal on paper.

 

[Kcin]

I wonder if you (and Leif) had bad luck, or used the Io in not-so-good ways (before rituals). Like keeping it on and running hot for longer periods (like I did). I ran Io mk2 for ten years, and upgraded to eclipse, before having a serious problem. But then, it was not easily diagnosed, and I had to ship all three boxes across the atlantic....and wait a long time. Aesthetix told me that the error was hard to identify, and in the end they had to replace both volume controls and some other components (not power supply). Yet they made the repair for a very reasonable price. It has now worked well for six years. So in my case, at least, "crappy quality" is not a fair judgement.

What is more relevant for me, is if Aesthetix will cooperate with a local technician, the next time some problem appears. Like Kcin mentions "a good tech can leakage test the transformers with the right instrument". Its been a long time since I've opened the power supplies, since I have not had problems pointing that way. But I wonder, how can I identify the need for tube change, in the p-s, does the sound get more muffled, or what. The tubes are 'stock' from Aesthetix 2018 I think. I am using NOS in the control unit, esp v1-v2 position, but have not experimented with NOS in the p-s.

My "remedy" - like before - is to use it sparingly, not let it get too hot, and when problems show up, get a replacement, so you can still play your records. This was actually an interesting experience, for me, when the Io was away for major repair for a long time. I first bought a very cheap Chinese Riia, that sounded very bad. Next, a used Graham Slee Fanfare 3 phono stage, for ca 200 usd. Not so bad. And finally, ASR mini basis mk2 (800 usd used) that sounded quite OK, and - interestingly - had some of the same sound philosophy as the Io. So I've kept the ASR, like a plaster on the wound if Io goes to repair. However, I have to mention, I was amazed when the Io came back, after more than a year. It viped the floor, including the ASR. A HUGE difference, in my system. The ASR sounded quite good, it was on the right track, but very anemic, lacking dynamics and muscle, in comparison. This experience made the central importance of the phono stage startlingly clear to me.

@OGH I can assure you that no start up/warm up ritual has any impact on the Io's proclivity to failure in any mode.

The tubes are used in there range of dissipation by design. With the right parts specified its about wear and tear-age and heat. If a part is incorrectly specified or has age related problems ( maybe the transformers-mine ran for almost 20 yrs before failure) then you will see failure. I would say running my unit for circa 20 years would suggest that the tubes and surrounding circuitry is rated within its design parameters.

More on transformers. They are specified by the mfr. to the subcontractor They pass the leakage test at point of manufacture. Over time , because of materials or construction methods -- or in rare instances , overloading or poor environment ( sea air, humidity) you could have insulation resistance breakdown.
Now modern materials generally are safe -but anything could happen . It is possible that the transformer was incorrectly specified for current and the heat , overtime, caused insulation break down and failure or intermittent failure - which is the worst kind. It is rare but I have worked on equipment that has leakage in the transformer that does not necessarily show its hand at idle and then it will intermittently short and cause downstream catastrophes. Generally, if you have some of your DC conditions on the test bench on initial analysis you pass on immediately suspecting a transformer. Its the worst kind of failure because its expensive an most transformers are custom and largely unavailable.

The quality of tubes have increasingly become suspect. Tubes can easily cause problems especially the one's that work hard as pass devices (el34) in the Io PS. They can potentially cause downstream collateral damage.

I must say that I absolutely don't like Chinese tube sockets for any application . I would say that 'most' manufacturers use Chinese sockets today ,out of necessity, and if you are a tube roller you will be in for headaches-- many times even if you are not. The quality of the metal and its spring action in the Chinese sockets is atrocious- without exception. If tube sockets are poor and you lose tension and thus bias, downstream collateral damage can occur.

The other thing is heat- you must have absolute clear unobstructed clearance above the Io. There is tremendous heat generated and you can trap it. You can affect component life and potentially warp boards over time. For example, the volume controls are enclosed in their metal case. If you overheat the chassis you are warping the VC in their own oven. It doesn't take much to affect the precision of the controls.

 

[OGH]

Hi Kcin, I just joked about rituals. I just turn my Io on, when needed. Based on the LOFO rule regarding the amps - last on, first off.
So, turning the system on, I start with the Io, next the preamp, and then the amps.

I will check what el34 tubes I have in the p-s. I would guess that transformer problems would often be audible (strong hum?) before any breakdown. I have no complaints so far. Although my first power supply (from ca 2002) has a bit more hum that the second one (from ca 2012). None of this is audible from the listener position. Or just very little. I think it is drowned by the general noise floor, made by all sorts of gremlins, like the needle tracking the music but also getting the noise from the vinyl, and whatever.

Some listeners find that the noise floor is anyway too high, with the Io. I don't agree. Maybe they just need to get the right system match - a robust MC cart with ca 0.5 output or so, correctly adjusted. And then, selected ultra low noise tubes especially in the first gain stage. Maybe the latest Io is low noise with carts down to 0.3 or even 0.2, I have not tried.

I agree 100 percent regarding heat. A quick and cheap fix is a computer fan on the wall or rack behind the Io or the p-s. Use a transformer and a resistor to get the fan to slow (silent) speed. I have two of these. They are good for hot days especially. Mainly I like to cool the room instead - but I live almost in igloo land. Norway. Cold climate a lot of the year. So the best way to get rid of excess heat - usually - is just opening the windows. Gradually becoming a luxury option, I know.

 

[Kcin]

Hi Kcin, I just joked about rituals. I just turn my Io on, when needed. Based on the LOFO rule regarding the amps - last on, first off.
So, turning the system on, I start with the Io, next the preamp, and then the amps.

I will check what el34 tubes I have in the p-s. I would guess that transformer problems would often be audible (strong hum?) before any breakdown. I have no complaints so far. Although my first power supply (from ca 2002) has a bit more hum that the second one (from ca 2012). None of this is audible from the listener position. Or just very little. I think it is drowned by the general noise floor, made by all sorts of gremlins, like the needle tracking the music but also getting the noise from the vinyl, and whatever.

Some listeners find that the noise floor is anyway too high, with the Io. I don't agree. Maybe they just need to get the right system match - a robust MC cart with ca 0.5 output or so, correctly adjusted. And then, selected ultra low noise tubes especially in the first gain stage. Maybe the latest Io is low noise with carts down to 0.3 or even 0.2, I have not tried.

Hi OGH,

I don't find the noise floor high at all and I use the Etsuro Gold at 0.3mV and the Koetsu Jade. There is no question though, the Io loves the GFS at about double that output. Tubes make a difference in the front positions. They (V1-V2) must be selected for noise if you don't have the means to do it yourself- get it done professionally. I don't find selecting tubes a chore as I would expect everyone that has a high performance piece of equipment would go down the selected tubes route regardless.

Enjoy.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My new Io Eclipse is shockingly quiet for a tube phono stage.

I could not find any fancy, expensive NOS tubes nearly as quiet as Jim White's stock tubes. I abandoned my tube swapping project, at least for the first three gain stages.

 

[OGH]

Kcin - and others - one more note.

You write "would say running my unit for circa 20 years would suggest that the tubes and surrounding circuitry is rated within its design parameters."

I basically agree. The main reason for the long repair that i experienced, was probably my own mistake. I thought it could be treated much like a solid state phono stage, keeping it on for long periods. I was wrong. Due to too much heat over time, components including the volume controls developed problems. Another factor is that I used it as a preamp, using the volume controls all the time. The exact cause of the failures was not disclosed by Aesthetix at the time of repair. I don't think they knew exactly.

But is it "crappy quality" if your phono stage requires repair after ten or twenty years of use? Please go away if all you have to say is that the Io is crappy and a better alternative is this or that.

 

[OGH]

Hi Kcin
Great news. I've tried a low input cart - maybe 0.3 - but felt that Io liked higher input better.

 

[OGH]

Hi Ron

"Shockingly quiet" - I am impressed. Although thinking also, not overdo this, we are listening to music, not quiet. What is your comparison? An earlier Eclipse version?

I am happy to hear if Aesthetix has improved the Io. Looking forward to your further listening impressions.

My impression with a new set of Aesthetix stock tubes - ca 2018 - has also been very good.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron

"Shockingly quiet" - I am impressed. Although thinking also, not overdo this, we are listening to music, not quiet. What is your comparison? An earlier Eclipse version?

Shockingly quiet relative to my first Io circa 1992, and shockingly quiet compared to the background system electronics noise level heard through the speakers of systems in general. No, not shockingly quiet relative to dead silent solid-state.

 

[audioquest4life]

My new Io Eclipse is shockingly quiet for a tube phono stage.

I could not find any fancy, expensive NOS tubes nearly as quiet as Jim White's stock tubes. I abandoned my tube swapping project, at least for the first three gain stages.

This is exactly how I feel. The only exception is that the V1/V2 stages seem to give up the ghost sooner than the other positions. Specifically, I have noticed a low-level whistle coming from the Io in the V1/V2 after prolonged use. My solution is to swap out the tubes for Sovtek 12AX7LPS. These were the tubes in the Io V1/V2 stages in its original form back in 2005 when I purchased it brand new. Works great. Perhaps, I should reach out to Glen for a replacement set for the V1/V2. Aesthetix spends considerable amount of time matching tubes for each unit.

 

[oldvinyl]

Like keeping it on and running hot for longer periods (like I did).

Running the equipment 24/7 for a year would put 8,760 hours on the tubes. All tubes in Io would essentially be past their prime and needing replacement. 12AX7s are rated for 10,000 hours. The EL-34 are rated for 2,500 hours.

Running hot will shorten those numbers. Good ventilation is essential for the life of tube equipment.

 

[oldvinyl]

I am happy to hear if Aesthetix has improved the Io. Looking forward to your further listening impressions.

Please see posts earlier in the thread about power supply upgrades that lower the noise floor. The new Aesthetix wound transformers and the new capacitors really make a difference. Same with shielded umbilical cables between the power supplies and the phono stage.