Alsyvox - Hi end Munich 2022 - your thoughts
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G'day maties, Just thought I'd add 50cts worth...
The first time I auditioned the Alsyvox, (in Spore) were driven by Momentum amplifiers both pre and power, it was phenomenal! Then I heard them at another place, same dealer who just phased out the last pair of Maggie 30.7's due to delivery issues, also had the Botichelli and used CJ's ART150 tube amplifier, that was superb!
Both chaps were using the Esoteric K01XD as primary digital sources and demoed some simple CDs, nothing fancy. Cables were a full loom of Nordost Odin and Valhalla.
Then covid hit again hard, and we went into our 7th dam lockdown... so I couldn't make a trip last Feb, when he actually got the new Botichelli-X, which has the out-board crossovers. Using extremely high grade parts, he claims this time round the openness and jump factor is even greater! Now he's using the newest Class A 160w monoblocks from CJ the ART108A's, supposed to be marvellous on both the CLX's and Alsyvox Botichelli-X. So, I'm eagerly planning another trip next Feb.
In the meantime, speaking of jump factor on my last demo, this is what I noticed straight away! Alsyvox are using the most powerful magnets on earth, neodymium magnets and they use double config on the planers, delivering stunning dynamics and very powerful bass slam when called for. This jump factor was initially good for the short term but not for long term sessions. So, in my case it really didn't allow me to relax and be fully immersed in the presentation, it kept me on the edge... plus my listening sessions are way past midnight, so what I'm looking for is the full effect even at soft to moderate levels.
However, like I said on short term demos, the Alsyvox were definitely the live event right in front of you, without a doubt! He also has CJ's top of the line ART300's, which are now used on the CLX's rather than the Alsyvox. The ART300's on the much higher efficiency Alsyvox ribbons is way overkill. I wouldn't personally go there either.
Overall, if I were to consider another ribbon type speaker, apart from Graz's refurbed Apogee's, I would certainly appreciate the Alsyvox without any hesitation. There's just one minor issue and that is in Aus the entry-level Tintorento goes for 125grand and the Botichelli-X starts at 160grand a pair upwards... forget that! Not happening in my humble finances, no chance, plus the wifey will definitely throw me into the usual dog house.
They are extraordinary ribbon planars though, very efficient, very easy to drive and don't possess notorious loads such as full range stats. I think low to medium powered tube amps would be outstanding on these but I haven't had the chance to audition that type of config at length.
Cheers to all, Woof!
RJ
The first time I auditioned the Alsyvox, (in Spore) were driven by Momentum amplifiers both pre and power, it was phenomenal! Then I heard them at another place, same dealer who just phased out the last pair of Maggie 30.7's due to delivery issues, also had the Botichelli and used CJ's ART150 tube amplifier, that was superb!
Both chaps were using the Esoteric K01XD as primary digital sources and demoed some simple CDs, nothing fancy. Cables were a full loom of Nordost Odin and Valhalla.
Then covid hit again hard, and we went into our 7th dam lockdown... so I couldn't make a trip last Feb, when he actually got the new Botichelli-X, which has the out-board crossovers. Using extremely high grade parts, he claims this time round the openness and jump factor is even greater! Now he's using the newest Class A 160w monoblocks from CJ the ART108A's, supposed to be marvellous on both the CLX's and Alsyvox Botichelli-X. So, I'm eagerly planning another trip next Feb.
In the meantime, speaking of jump factor on my last demo, this is what I noticed straight away! Alsyvox are using the most powerful magnets on earth, neodymium magnets and they use double config on the planers, delivering stunning dynamics and very powerful bass slam when called for. This jump factor was initially good for the short term but not for long term sessions. So, in my case it really didn't allow me to relax and be fully immersed in the presentation, it kept me on the edge... plus my listening sessions are way past midnight, so what I'm looking for is the full effect even at soft to moderate levels.
However, like I said on short term demos, the Alsyvox were definitely the live event right in front of you, without a doubt! He also has CJ's top of the line ART300's, which are now used on the CLX's rather than the Alsyvox. The ART300's on the much higher efficiency Alsyvox ribbons is way overkill. I wouldn't personally go there either.
Overall, if I were to consider another ribbon type speaker, apart from Graz's refurbed Apogee's, I would certainly appreciate the Alsyvox without any hesitation. There's just one minor issue and that is in Aus the entry-level Tintorento goes for 125grand and the Botichelli-X starts at 160grand a pair upwards... forget that! Not happening in my humble finances, no chance, plus the wifey will definitely throw me into the usual dog house.
They are extraordinary ribbon planars though, very efficient, very easy to drive and don't possess notorious loads such as full range stats. I think low to medium powered tube amps would be outstanding on these but I haven't had the chance to audition that type of config at length.
Cheers to all, Woof!
RJ
Price withstanding for someone like yourself that wants a more relaxed sound then something like the JA30's might do the trick. Or at least this was the impression from another Aussie
This is part of the beauty of the 97db efficient Raffaello. You can light them up with big power or have a more natural, relaxed sound with low watt tubes.My show notes for the Jadis, Alsyvox and Taiko room read “open, open, open”. Indeed. The sound here projected so naturally and vividly into the room that I was captivated. An acoustic track also presented what was, in my HEM 2022’s experience, the deepest, widest and tallest soundstage. Said soundfield was populated with vivid images in tight focus. The low registers were expertly balanced and, at least while I was there through several tracks, sounded well-matched and integrated to the room. Vocals were sweet, never aggressive and projected with realistic presence. For such large panels, the sense of a performance rather than merely speakers was quite a palpable phenomenon. This is the best I’ve heard the Alsyvox speakers sound.
Edgar Kramer, Soundstage Australia
Link: https://www.soundstageaustralia.com...10-favourite-exhibits-at-high-end-munich-2022
Yes agreed without a doubt, the Jadis would be wonderful. However, I'm very passionate about CJ gear and have been using them since my very early dealership years, going way back to the early 02's...Price withstanding for someone like yourself that wants a more relaxed sound then something like the JA30's might do the trick. Or at least this was the impression from another Aussie
My show notes for the Jadis, Alsyvox and Taiko room read “open, open, open”. Indeed. The sound here projected so naturally and vividly into the room that I was captivated. An acoustic track also presented what was, in my HEM 2022’s experience, the deepest, widest and tallest soundstage. Said soundfield was populated with vivid images in tight focus. The low registers were expertly balanced and, at least while I was there through several tracks, sounded well-matched and integrated to the room. Vocals were sweet, never aggressive and projected with realistic presence. For such large panels, the sense of a performance rather than merely speakers was quite a palpable phenomenon. This is the best I’ve heard the Alsyvox speakers sound.
Edgar Kramer, Soundstage Australia
Link: https://www.soundstageaustralia.com...10-favourite-exhibits-at-high-end-munich-2022
I'm currently using a very specialised modded pair of CJ monoblocks to drive my CLX's full range, no subs! It delivers around 60w of Class A tube power and switches into Class AB over 80w and above towards 150w if required. I firmly believe these would be ideal on the Alsyvox but like I said, anything over 150grand just for speakers is going to be very hard to justify to the good wife. I reckon I'd first have to forward a nice diamond ring from Tiffany's in order to get prior approval. So that equals 100grand for Tiffany plus 150grand for Botichelli-X, around 250grand all up, yep no worries at all mate.... yeah right!
Anyway, as remarkable as they truly are, which I enjoyed my limited time with, I've also posted a lengthy review on them somewhere here when I first heard them. Can't remember exactly under what tab I posted it but it's floating around somewhere on this forum...
As for now, I'm truly passionate about my CLX's and just enjoying every bit every hour. After all, for some darn reason I keep going back to full range stats. Guess it's just a personal preference.
For those who can muster out a couple hundred grand from their deep pockets, must consider the Alsyvox if they're considering speakers within this type of category. I do very highly recommend them. Just make sure the rest of your gear is up to par.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
Not saying at all that they should be for you etc. I'm SURE your CLX's sound wonderful. Yes the 60 watt Class A would be just about right imho. Enough juice but not too much, when it's not really needed.
Yes, correct. However, I was sooo tempted I nearly, very nearly paid a deposit...!!! Then I saw wifey's image of her face frowning in the background of the panels, I gasped! And then nearly fell off the seat... man it was so hard to resist, especially when these are capable of being driven with a handful of watts. Very efficient design!
Another very tempting deposit were nearly on CJ's ART108A's! Again nearly! Those are around 50grand in the US, by the time they land down unda, they'll probably be closer to 70grand a pair. Even if I brought these with me, no point because I'd be thrown into the dog house in any case..., can't listen effectively in a dog house!
Convincing the Mrs on the CLX's was hard enough... involved a bit of jewellery. After all she's the Mrs, must appreciate her once in a while in putting up with all the madness I've created. Bless her soul, I owe her a lot! If not for her, I wouldn't be where I am today. So I really wouldn't do anything drastic to upset her.
Cheese to our better half's!
Woof! RJ
Keep those tubes glowing and those fine tunes playing!
Another very tempting deposit were nearly on CJ's ART108A's! Again nearly! Those are around 50grand in the US, by the time they land down unda, they'll probably be closer to 70grand a pair. Even if I brought these with me, no point because I'd be thrown into the dog house in any case..., can't listen effectively in a dog house!
Convincing the Mrs on the CLX's was hard enough... involved a bit of jewellery. After all she's the Mrs, must appreciate her once in a while in putting up with all the madness I've created. Bless her soul, I owe her a lot! If not for her, I wouldn't be where I am today. So I really wouldn't do anything drastic to upset her.
Cheese to our better half's!
Woof! RJ
Keep those tubes glowing and those fine tunes playing!
ARFFF, ARFFF!
Hey Big Dog!
If you are concerned about wifey's face frowning at you from between the new speakers -- then don't let her into the listening room!
Buy that Alsyvox!
PS: In my personal opinion 60 watts is better suited to the Alsyvox than to the CLX.
G'day Ron mate, trust all is going well at your end of the woods...
Yes, the Alsyvox are superb in every way. There are no compromises in this design whatsoever! The very best materials, components, magnets, design is just superbly done from head to toe. Even the stand they rest on, fantastic! You can't flaw them at all, no chance other than that jump factor but that's just me being pedantic.
Even my long term trusted CJ distributor in Spore mentioned exactly what you said regarding my Class A modded tube monoblocks on the Alsyvox. That's when the temptation set in... then I saw wifey's face like a holy holographic image, huge frown ?? it was pretty scary mate! So I withdrew, and that's all she wrote!
We'll see, perhaps later on when I decide to downsize on the amps. I forgot to mention, even the ART27A would be a superb match. That's 35w pure Class A, another absolute gem of a design from CJ's latest ART series amplifiers.
Oh boy! I'm getting goose bumps now...
Cheers, and a mighty WOOF!
RJ
@Big Dog RJ : I’m puzzled by your comment about running the CLX without subs. The CLX is simply not designed to go so low and no amplifier can change that or compensate for it. Would you care to expand on what you are attempting to do?
Attn: Iansr
Looks like a bit late to the debate of CLX's with subs... here we go again!
I've emphasised my preference without the need for subs on the CLX's under my tab "The CLX Art, a true of work of Art." Please read through and you'll understand what I'm referring to.
Just to reiterate though and I must call it a day, simply because I don't want this thread to be a debate on CLX's bass, hell no! That horse has been flogged to death many times!
But just for you:
1. The ML specs on the CLX's are completely misleading! Specs are only specs, meant to be used as guidelines.
2. I've owned various other types of speakers with great specs in LF but sadly they can't do even half of the LF detail CLX's are capable of just on their own. To name a few, Quad ESL's (63, 2905's & 2912's) Maggie's MG3 series (MG3.3, 3.5, 3 6 & 3.7), CLSIIZ's, Paradigm Studio 80, Studio 100, Energy Veritas and a host of others, including dynamic driver types that weren't even close to the CLX's bass.
3. The CLX's are a radical change in electrostatic design. Using triple stators for the first time in stats, never been done before, creates a dual force in LF drive.
4. It has superb dynamics, lighting speed, agility, and LF control.
5. The amplifier's really need to be able to drive and control this sort of radical design. Impedence drops to 0.7 Ohms and rises to 20 Ohms in a blink of an eye.
6. Many so called highend amps can't deliver the required current and stable voltage required to fully grip these full range stats. There are some very good amplifiers that have outstanding quality when driving CLX's, and once that match is found, you'll know straight away.
7. If you listen to large orchestral works, bass organ type of music and a lot of deep synthesised bass, then yes a sub is required. It's only these very low notes, around 30Hz and below that the CLX's won't reproduce with much detail.
8. A ML rep, my trusted CJ tech, and Nordost cable rep measured the LF response from my CLX setup and obtained a reading of 32Hz, and in some cases slightly lower.
9. On the MLO forum, several CLX owners are debating as to why on earth the ML team didn't divulge accurate specs for the CLX's...
10. At the end of the day, who cares what the specs are! As long as it reproduces what's on the recording, that's all that matters, and it captures exactly that!
A few good mates came up with these theories:
1. The ML team didn't want to divulge exact specs & capabilities of the CLX's, in hope that nearly all users would buy ML subs! And guess what? They do!
2. One of the tech team members was too drunk to proof read the specs, so it went into production... oh no! Too late...
3. After the specs were printed, they couldn't be bothered correcting it... since now the CLX's are discontinued! So why bother.
I'll leave it at that mate, this thread is about the Alsyvox not CLX's. Happy to discuss CLX's in more detail under the appropriate tab.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
Looks like a bit late to the debate of CLX's with subs... here we go again!
I've emphasised my preference without the need for subs on the CLX's under my tab "The CLX Art, a true of work of Art." Please read through and you'll understand what I'm referring to.
Just to reiterate though and I must call it a day, simply because I don't want this thread to be a debate on CLX's bass, hell no! That horse has been flogged to death many times!
But just for you:
1. The ML specs on the CLX's are completely misleading! Specs are only specs, meant to be used as guidelines.
2. I've owned various other types of speakers with great specs in LF but sadly they can't do even half of the LF detail CLX's are capable of just on their own. To name a few, Quad ESL's (63, 2905's & 2912's) Maggie's MG3 series (MG3.3, 3.5, 3 6 & 3.7), CLSIIZ's, Paradigm Studio 80, Studio 100, Energy Veritas and a host of others, including dynamic driver types that weren't even close to the CLX's bass.
3. The CLX's are a radical change in electrostatic design. Using triple stators for the first time in stats, never been done before, creates a dual force in LF drive.
4. It has superb dynamics, lighting speed, agility, and LF control.
5. The amplifier's really need to be able to drive and control this sort of radical design. Impedence drops to 0.7 Ohms and rises to 20 Ohms in a blink of an eye.
6. Many so called highend amps can't deliver the required current and stable voltage required to fully grip these full range stats. There are some very good amplifiers that have outstanding quality when driving CLX's, and once that match is found, you'll know straight away.
7. If you listen to large orchestral works, bass organ type of music and a lot of deep synthesised bass, then yes a sub is required. It's only these very low notes, around 30Hz and below that the CLX's won't reproduce with much detail.
8. A ML rep, my trusted CJ tech, and Nordost cable rep measured the LF response from my CLX setup and obtained a reading of 32Hz, and in some cases slightly lower.
9. On the MLO forum, several CLX owners are debating as to why on earth the ML team didn't divulge accurate specs for the CLX's...
10. At the end of the day, who cares what the specs are! As long as it reproduces what's on the recording, that's all that matters, and it captures exactly that!
A few good mates came up with these theories:
1. The ML team didn't want to divulge exact specs & capabilities of the CLX's, in hope that nearly all users would buy ML subs! And guess what? They do!
2. One of the tech team members was too drunk to proof read the specs, so it went into production... oh no! Too late...
3. After the specs were printed, they couldn't be bothered correcting it... since now the CLX's are discontinued! So why bother.
I'll leave it at that mate, this thread is about the Alsyvox not CLX's. Happy to discuss CLX's in more detail under the appropriate tab.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
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The best electrostatic bass I ever had was a pair of Acoustat Spectra 4400. Huge panels with deep powerful And textured bass.
Yes, the pricing is a bit stiff... and when it lands down unda, the entry-level Tintorento starts at 125grand upwards...
So for that kind of spend, I'd be looking at nearly 200grand for the Botichelli-X... that's a tough one to justify to the wifey. Hence, I can't go there now.
Will have to see how things pan out in the future... perhaps Alsyvox may make something more affordable... don't know.
Cheers mate, have a good one
Woof! RJ
Yes, the Acoustat gear was excellent! But sadly no longer in production. I guess no one else wanted to take over either, unlike Apogee. What a great come back!
I haven't come across an Acoustat setup in ages... wonder if any of my Spore mates may still have theirs.
Cheers, RJ
The tonality was ok and bass was good enough for a panel speaker.
IMHO the problem is there was no ATTACK or IMPACT even though volume was high enough. It was more obvious when classical music was played. IMHO I don’t think anything wrong with the amplification, those speakers just don’t have the impact and makes music non-involving like most panel speakers do.
IMHO the problem is there was no ATTACK or IMPACT even though volume was high enough. It was more obvious when classical music was played. IMHO I don’t think anything wrong with the amplification, those speakers just don’t have the impact and makes music non-involving like most panel speakers do.
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What other panel speakers have you found to be non-involving?
With respect to Alsyvox and to Bob, I wonder if only 30 watts on those panels may be flirting with trouble regarding dynamics and impact.
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Quad ESL-57 is not non-involving but it still doesn't have the impact. it has a magic midrange, maybe the best among all speakers but that's it.
regardless of sound pressure level, panel speakers in general don't have that impact, moving air, attack, dynamics like conventional box designs. instruments sound as if they don't have a body. it's hard to describe it but I'm not talking about bass. sorry for strong criticism but that's what I hear from panel speakers. maybe I should have added "IMHO" in the beginning of my prior post which I will do now.
even a small conventional speaker like living voice was sounding better on all aspects in Munich.
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