American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"

[Argonaut]

Of the people who ordered, Mike had heard it, and of course Peter heard it at length.

And it would seem that both Mike L and Ron subsequently chose not to continue with their acquisition of the Karmeli turntable … There may be any number of reasons behind these events , that we are quite rightly not privy too .

That said … both Mike and Ron seem more than pleased and content with their current , Non American Sound , Analog playback setups .

 

[Ron Resnick]

Here is your post:



I am disputing your very direct claim that the AS2000 is an upsized AS1000. That is simply not true and I try to correct misinformation and mischaracterization on these threads about the American Sound turntable because David is not here to do so. I have direct experience with these turntables, listening and assembling. Are you now retracting or changing your earlier comment?

I started this thread about the new turntable in my excitement after hearing it and learning something about it . I thought the membership would be interested in reading about it. You can refer to it as marketing if you want, but surely you understand that this forum is very much about marketing, right? You market every new product that comes to the café and the people involved.

This thread is where information about the new turntable is being discussed on this forum. Your mischaracterization about the AS2000 is wrong and it presented an opportunity to explain that the new turntable is more of a departure from the earlier designs.

I don’t know why you like to argue so much about something you know very little about.

I am baffled by your argumentativeness.

"The AS-2000 is an upsized AS-1000" is a true statement. I don't know why you're being so lawyerly by suggesting that somehow "the AS-2000 is an upsized AS-1000" necessarily precludes that there also are other improvements.

As the first person to order an AS-2000, and to put David's project "on the map" here on WBF, David highlighted for me the improvements over the AS-1000 embodied in the AS-2000. Those improvements don't mean that the AS-2000 is not an upsized AS-1000.

 

[bonzo75]

I remember this post on Peter’s video where I preferred the AS 1000 video to the 2000 one, as did Tang.

Post in thread 'Natural Sound'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/natural-sound.32867/post-817011

There was a difference in the two vdh carts. Which brings me to my regular point, the cartridge matters more.

 

[PeterA]

I am baffled by your argumentativeness.

"The AS-2000 is an upsized AS-1000" is a true statement. I don't know why you're being so lawyerly by suggesting that somehow "the AS-2000 is an upsized AS-1000" necessarily precludes that there also are other improvements.

As the first person to order an AS-2000, and to put David's project "on the map" here on WBF, David highlighted for me the improvements over the AS-1000 embodied in the AS-2000. Those improvements don't mean that the AS-2000 is not an upsized AS-1000.

Ron, can you explain how the AS2000 is an “upsized” AS1000, excluding other improvements? I don’t think I understand what you mean by the word “upsized“.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, can you explain how the AS2000 is an “upsized” AS1000, excluding other improvements? I don’t think I understand what you mean by the word “upsized“.

"Upsized" is an adjective that means to increase in size or to produce a larger version of something.

 

[PeterA]

"Upsized" is an adjective that means to increase in size or to produce a larger version of something.

That is exactly what I thought you meant Ron. So what has increased in size and by how much and where? We’re not talking about other differences that have nothing to do with size. How has the turntable been upsized?

There are some fascinating changes to the base and platter. Resonances and energy are managed differently resulting in a more natural presentation.

 

[tima]

Those improvements don't mean that the AS-2000 is not an upsized AS-1000.

That is vaporous doublespeak, not an argument.

 

[mtemur]

That is vaporous doublespeak, not an argument.

If there’s any ‘vaporous doublespeak,’ it’s in the statement below:

There are some fascinating changes to the base and platter. Resonances and energy are managed differently resulting in a more natural presentation.

Dear Tim and Peter, how is ‘fascinating changes’ an explanatory answer when @Ron Resnick specifically asked about the improvements over the AS 1000? And what exactly are we supposed to take away from ‘resonances and energy are managed differently’?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m just seeking more information about the AN turntable. That’s why I’ve been asking repetitive questions about the air bearing—because I haven’t received meaningful answers. While I don’t expect a full disclosure of every detail, I also don’t expect a vague response like ‘fascinating changes.’ That doesn’t satisfy anyone or address the question.

When you open a thread for the introduction of a new turntable with a claim like ‘Absolute Nothing,’ people expect you to share details and insights. You can’t expect people to take your word for an extremely high-priced turntable—especially one that can’t be auditioned or found in stores—coming from a Hi-Fi enthusiast rather than a known manufacturer.

Dear Peter, I understand your enthusiasm and commitment (though I’m not sure I understand @Maril555 ’s). However, in order to back up your claims more grounded answers—both technically and logically—are needed rather than ‘fascinating’ or labeling every detail as top secret. Just my opinion.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Dont tell em anything peter .
Nothing sells as good as a mysterie

 

[PeterA]

If there’s any ‘vaporous doublespeak,’ it’s in the statement below:



Dear Tim and Peter, how is ‘fascinating changes’ an explanatory answer when @Ron Resnick specifically asked about the improvements over the AS 1000? And what exactly are we supposed to take away from ‘resonances and energy are managed differently’?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m just seeking more information about the AN turntable. That’s why I’ve been asking repetitive questions about the air bearing—because I haven’t received meaningful answers. While I don’t expect a full disclosure of every detail, I also don’t expect a vague response like ‘fascinating changes.’ That doesn’t satisfy anyone or address the question.

When you open a thread for the introduction of a new turntable with a claim like ‘Absolute Nothing,’ people expect you to share details and insights. You can’t expect people to take your word for an extremely high-priced turntable—especially one that can’t be auditioned or found in stores—coming from a Hi-Fi enthusiast rather than a known manufacturer.

Dear Peter, I understand your enthusiasm and commitment (though I’m not sure I understand @Maril555 ’s). However, in order to back up your claims more grounded answers—both technically and logically—are needed rather than ‘fascinating’ or labeling every detail as top secret. Just my opinion.

Where did Ron ask about the specific improvements between the two tables? I think I missed his question. He made a declarative statement about upsized and I am asking him to explain it because I don’t understand how it applies in this context with the AS 1000 and AS 2000. The changes between the two tables, particularly the platter and the base, have nothing to do with size. Anyway, Ron is silent, and this thread is about the new turntable.

I opened this thread about the Absolute Nothing with videos, photographs, and listening impressions. I described the sound and the origin of the name. I’m providing more information than anyone else. I understand that it is not sufficient to answer all of your questions. I apologize for that.

 

[Maril555]

If there’s any ‘vaporous doublespeak,’ it’s in the statement below:



Dear Tim and Peter, how is ‘fascinating changes’ an explanatory answer when @Ron Resnick specifically asked about the improvements over the AS 1000? And what exactly are we supposed to take away from ‘resonances and energy are managed differently’?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m just seeking more information about the AN turntable. That’s why I’ve been asking repetitive questions about the air bearing—because I haven’t received meaningful answers. While I don’t expect a full disclosure of every detail, I also don’t expect a vague response like ‘fascinating changes.’ That doesn’t satisfy anyone or address the question.

When you open a thread for the introduction of a new turntable with a claim like ‘Absolute Nothing,’ people expect you to share details and insights. You can’t expect people to take your word for an extremely high-priced turntable—especially one that can’t be auditioned or found in stores—coming from a Hi-Fi enthusiast rather than a known manufacturer.

Dear Peter, I understand your enthusiasm and commitment (though I’m not sure I understand @Maril555 ’s). However, in order to back up your claims more grounded answers—both technically and logically—are needed rather than ‘fascinating’ or labeling every detail as top secret. Just my opinion.

Ron, I have neither "enthusiasm", nor "commitment". I simply made brief comments to reiterate the points Peter has been making repeatedly, especially about the presence or absence of the physical contact in the AS air bearing.
It seems members wouldn't accept his assurances unless they've been supported by a detailed description of the design.
As stated by Peter, he is not at liberty to do so, still, there seems to be an unrelenting pressure from various members to reveal the details of the air bearing design.
My guess is, that due to the simplicity of the design, anything more than "vague" description would reveal more, than Peter is willing to divulge.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, I have neither "enthusiasm", nor "commitment". I simply made brief comments to reiterate the points Peter has been making repeatedly, especially about the presence or absence of the physical contact in the AS air bearing.
It seems members wouldn't accept his assurances unless they've been supported by a detailed description of the design.
As stated by Peter, he is not at liberty to do so, still, there seems to be an unrelenting pressure from various members to reveal the details of the air bearing design.
My guess is, that due to the simplicity of the design, anything more than "vague" description would reveal more, than Peter is willing to divulge.

Hello Maril,

Was this for mtemur?

 

[bonzo75]

Ron

That’s not Ron that’s mtemur and both of you are fellow La platine owners and general nice guys caught in crossfire

 

[Maril555]

Hello Maril,

Was this for mtemur?

Sorry Ron,
It was for Mtemur, my apologies

 

[Maril555]

That’s not Ron that’s mtemur and both of you are fellow La platine owners and general nice guys caught in crossfire

That settles it.
Selling my original Granito La Platine years ago is still the most regrettable thing I’ve done in the hobby.

 

[tima]

Those improvements don't mean that the AS-2000 is not an upsized AS-1000.

That is vaporous doublespeak, not an argument.

If there’s any ‘vaporous doublespeak,’ it’s in the statement below:

There are some fascinating changes to the base and platter. Resonances and energy are managed differently resulting in a more natural presentation.

Dear Tim and Peter, how is ‘fascinating changes’ an explanatory answer when @Ron Resnick specifically asked about the improvements over the AS 1000? And what exactly are we supposed to take away from ‘resonances and energy are managed differently’?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m just seeking more information about the AN turntable. That’s why I’ve been asking repetitive questions about the air bearing—because I haven’t received meaningful answers. While I don’t expect a full disclosure of every detail, I also don’t expect a vague response like ‘fascinating changes.’ That doesn’t satisfy anyone or address the question.

When you open a thread for the introduction of a new turntable with a claim like ‘Absolute Nothing,’ people expect you to share details and insights. You can’t expect people to take your word for an extremely high-priced turntable—especially one that can’t be auditioned or found in stores—coming from a Hi-Fi enthusiast rather than a known manufacturer.

Dear Peter, I understand your enthusiasm and commitment (though I’m not sure I understand @Maril555 ’s). However, in order to back up your claims more grounded answers—both technically and logically—are needed rather than ‘fascinating’ or labeling every detail as top secret. Just my opinion.

Being kind I assume you inadvertantly addressed your post to me. I've heard neither the AS1000 nor the Absolute Nothing. I have no knowledge of either to disclose, much less details, and if I did I doubt I would.

I read the thread title not as a 'claim' but as a proper name for a turntable. Peter's description is not something he needs to "back up". Starting with some great photos, he shared what he had to share and has been a model of patience with all the questions about the AN across a 32 page thread. That he did not meet your expectations is not something to take out on him -- that's your issue, not his. I believe you know that most exotic audio products have proprietary information that is not splayed out in public forums.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m just seeking more information about the AN turntable. That’s why I’ve been asking repetitive questions about the air bearing—because I haven’t received meaningful answers.

I get skeptical of someone who needs to convince about his motive. In the crowd attracted to your message I see no one who is interested in a purchase, with more information likely to result in more hectoring and argument, more DKDS. If the interest is genuine anyone is free to contact the manufacturer with their questions.

 

[ALF]

Ked, your recent posts have disappeared…BTW, what happened with tang’s new speakers?

vbw,
-a

 

[Balle Clorin]

Yes, it’s possible and Kondo Ginga uses one exactly as you described.

Yes, but the subject in this thread seem to have a knot, I took a look at 2 YouTube videos and on both what seems to be a knot appear as the platter revolves..

It would be interesting to se a w&f plot and FFT spectrum , maybe like the Shaknspin data I posted for my own turntable, in another thread. The interaction between motor, belt/string and platter determines the speed performance. I understand that measurement are not popular or the focus in this forum, but it would be interesting to see how far vinyl playback can go technically with such a massive design at this, knot or no knot…

 

[Balle Clorin]

Yet, here we have a sound that clearly falls short of the mark. For example. In all 3 videos posted David’s playback presentation seems fairly loaded down with that rather unpleasant and all too common hollowed empty-coffee-can-like sonic signature. Though this rather unpleasant sonic signature is clearly present in all 3 videos petera posted, it’s perhaps most obvious with female vocals.

It is easy to misrepresent the actual sound when recording with a microphone in a room.
I am glad that I recently found an easy way to overlay the video sound with the recorded output from my RIAA….
I hope more people can to it so we avoid YouTube sound of the mic-in-room

Add Audio to Video — Clideo

Add music or audio to video online and for free without even downloading any program to your device.

clideo.com

 

[stehno]

It is easy to misrepresent the actual sound when recording with a microphone in a room.
I am glad that I recently found an easy way to overlay the video sound with the recorded output from my RIAA….
I hope more people can to it so we avoid YouTube sound of the mic-in-room

Add Audio to Video — Clideo

Add music or audio to video online and for free without even downloading any program to your device.

clideo.com

Yikes. Yet another rabbit hole leading nowhere?