American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"

[Balle Clorin]

I would like to ask about the part of your comment that states "The interaction between motor, belt/string and platter determines the speed performance”.

Based upon my experience, I would have written The interaction between motor, belt/string and platter affects but does not exclusively determine a turntable's speed performance.

There are other factors involved in the speed performance of The Absolute Nothing turntable.

Do you agree?

It is easier to measure speed errors than to hear them . Somethings have more impact than others . Most people so not notice errors below 0.2% on speed .?But when you first notice it, it is difficult to ignore. For many technical performance is not the goal as long as it does not interfere with musical enjoyment. silky Nerds like me feel more pride of ownership when also the technical parts are in order and top notch ,even if well below audible limits. I still enjoy my playing on my beutiful belt drive more than my perfect pitch DD, so I am not very consistent myself …

 

[cdk84]

It is easier to measure speed errors than to hear them . Somethings have more impact than others . Most people so not notice errors below 0.2% on speed .?But when you first notice it, it is difficult to ignore. For many technical performance is not the goal as long as it does not interfere with musical enjoyment. silky Nerds like me feel more pride of ownership when also the technical parts are in order and top notch ,even if well below audible limits. I still enjoy my playing on my beutiful belt drive more than my perfect pitch DD, so I am not very consistent myself …

Hello BC,
I like the tenor of your response and agree. Isn’t it about the involvement, the degree to which a performance is re-presented in our listening environment?
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
David

 

[PeterA]

It is easier to measure speed errors than to hear them . Somethings have more impact than others . Most people so not notice errors below 0.2% on speed .?But when you first notice it, it is difficult to ignore. For many technical performance is not the goal as long as it does not interfere with musical enjoyment. silky Nerds like me feel more pride of ownership when also the technical parts are in order and top notch ,even if well below audible limits. I still enjoy my playing on my beutiful belt drive more than my perfect pitch DD, so I am not very consistent myself …

0.02% is a speed variation of 0.067 from 33.33RPM, right? Do you mean 33.33 RMP +/- 0.0335 (33.297 - 33.364) for a variation around 33.33 of 0.067, or do you mean 33.33 vs 33.397 (0.067 too fast) and 33.33 vs 33.263 (0.067 too slow)?

 

[Balle Clorin]

The average absolute error does not matter much. It is the constant variation that is annoying and audible as a wavering unsteady sound. 0.2% is very audible on test tones, but mostly obscured by pop music. I can easily hear 0.05 % wow on a test tone, even 0.02% can be noticed.

One thing to note is that the wow at the inner tracks can reach 0.3% wow just due to an a normal hole size deviation if 0.2mm . … so it is a hopeless battle to fight wow , just get it as good as you can

0.2% wow is a variation between 33,2663 and 33,3997.

 

[Loheswaran]

The average absolute error does not matter much. It is the constant variation that is annoying and audible as a wavering unsteady sound. 0.2% is very audible on test tones, but mostly obscured by pop music. I can easily hear 0.05 % wow on a test tone, even 0.02% can be noticed.

One thing to note is that the wow at the inner tracks can reach 0.3% wow just due to an a normal hole size deviation if 0.2mm . … so it is a hopeless battle to fight wow , just get it as good as you can

0.2% wow is a variation between 33,2663 and 33,3997.

I will repeat a mantra of mine that came following a discussion with my audiologist cousin and also Martin Colloms from Hifi critic - people have different sensitivities- we’re different. In my case I’m apparently very timing sensitive - this manifests itself in my hi Fi choices (dd’s and a high torque belt drive) also sealed speakers (ns1000m’s) and incisive/quick amp Lavardin IT. I found with my string drive deck (Amazon model one) it timed well to a point with inertia - but when playing complex passages the tiny slurring was audible to me.

 

[Balle Clorin]

If you want perfect sound stream it..

 

[hb22]

The average absolute error does not matter much. It is the constant variation that is annoying and audible as a wavering unsteady sound. 0.2% is very audible on test tones, but mostly obscured by pop music. I can easily hear 0.05 % wow on a test tone, even 0.02% can be noticed.

One thing to note is that the wow at the inner tracks can reach 0.3% wow just due to an a normal hole size deviation if 0.2mm . … so it is a hopeless battle to fight wow , just get it as good as you can

0.2% wow is a variation between 33,2663 and 33,3997.

LPs have more deviations than 0.2 mm and play perfectly. If it weren't like that, we wouldn't listen to vinyl. With an uncentered test disc, my turntable has about 0.12% wow, with max. centered even up to 0.03% wow. Flutter cannot be measured. There is no point in dealing with wow. You can hear flutter, but that's it.

 

[Loheswaran]

LPs have more deviations than 0.2 mm and play perfectly. If it weren't like that, we wouldn't listen to vinyl. With an uncentered test disc, my turntable has about 0.12% wow, with max. centered even up to 0.03% wow. Flutter cannot be measured. There is no point in dealing with wow. You can hear flutter, but that's it.

I get ur point - but what you have there is a bump/blip. When you get drag it’s over that section of the complex/busy music and it acts like a slipper clutch. That is then over and above the inherent ‘flaws’ in vinyl that you already rightly point out.