American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"

[DasguteOhr]

so what is that arm bearing, if not an airbearing?

Is MG 1 airbearing tonearm ut it will be replaced by tw 10.5 much better, I just didn't have a base ready for it yet. Was able to test and assemble quickly the turntable.

 

[Maril555]

This sentence is ridiculous and not true!

"There is friction caused by the air under pressure on the surface of the base and the bottom of the platter."

Why do you think that statement is not true?

 

[DasguteOhr]

there is a captured air bearing, and an air float platter/plinth. two different approaches. my CS Port LFT1 uses a low pressure, low flow air float where the air pressure lifts then bleeds past the platter in a controlled way. i believe that the American Sound tt designs use a somewhat similar approach, but don't know the details as it's a secret handshake hush-hush kinda thing.

air bearing linear tracking tonearms also do the air float thing with air bleeding past the machined surfaces.

my Rockport Sirius III had a captured air bearing for the platter. sounded quite marvelous.

I didn't say that it sounds worse. I don't like the effort of doing it properly. I always think of my teacher's saying: "If it's not easy to construct, you haven't thought it through."
The best thing to do is call here and talk to an engineer. There are really nice people there and they probably build the best air bearings in the world. That's my opinion

Air bearing technology – Aerolas

aerolas.de

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

Is MG 1 airbearing tonearm ut it will be replaced by tw 10.5 much better, I just didn't have a base ready for it yet. Was able to test and assemble quickly the turntable.

a poor Airtangent copy IMO

 

[Balle Clorin]

Doesn’t the stylus in the groove present a constant load for the motor, even if the bearing has extremely low friction? Perhaps those who are discussing breaking or constant load are talking about a greater force against which the motor must work.

I am thinking aloud here, but would not friction act as a damper in the motor-belt-platter system? And some damping is positive to avoid peaking resonances.. So a very low friction may cause motor irregularities to easier transfer to the platter- only inertia acting and no damping- ?

 

[Lagonda]

For me it's not important how long the turntable spins, it's just a sign that it's well constructed.
Much more important is how consistently the energy from the drive acts on the turntable and helps it to achieve an absolutely stable speed.
There's no better way to do this than with a heavy turntable combined with a heavy flywheel. Once you've heard something like that, normal turntables are hard to bear(a little exaggerated).
You have to listen toall your LPs again, because there's a completely different stability to the sounds, whether it's piano or bass, for example.
It will be finished in the summer, when all the rotating parts will be powder-coated the same color, and will look nicer.for me the final solution.View attachment 143186

Please don't use the term " the final solution ", you are German !

 

[Al M.]

Please don't use the term " the final solution ", you are German !

Yup. Oops.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Please don't use the term " the final solution ", you are German !

Ok..sorry the last turntable in my life

 

[A-Line]

Please don't use the term " the final solution ", you are German !

lol

 

[DasguteOhr]

a poor Airtangent copy IMO

not so bad with some little mods, "poor" sounds for me like mr.hit turntable

 

[Lagonda]

For me it's not important how long the turntable spins, it's just a sign that it's well constructed.
Much more important is how consistently the energy from the drive acts on the turntable and helps it to achieve an absolutely stable speed.
There's no better way to do this than with a heavy turntable combined with a heavy flywheel. Once you've heard something like that, normal turntables are hard to bear(a little exaggerated).
You have to listen toall your LPs again, because there's a completely different stability to the sounds, whether it's piano or bass, for example.
It will be finished in the summer, when all the rotating parts will be powder-coated the same color, and will look nicer.for me the final solution.View attachment 143186

What voltage is the Revox motor running on ? Is it around 130 V ? Looks like about the same small size pulley i use on my Studer motor.

 

[DasguteOhr]

What voltage is the Revox motor running on ? Is it around 130 V ? Looks like about the same small size pulley i use on my Studer motor.

Same motor here I wanted to try it out but it will take some time. First I have to build everything nicely.

Quartz-Control A80

With a sensor on the flywhell

 

[Lagonda]

Same motor here I wanted to try it out but it will take some time. First I have to build everything nicely.

Quartz-Control A80

With a sensor on the flywhell

Yes i have been in contact with Ernst, his system is plug in for Studer machines, i am not a electrical wizard like you !

 

[DasguteOhr]

Yes i have been in contact with Ernst, his system is plug in for Studer machines, i am not a electrical wizard like you !

Looks like really good ..I'm more like catweazle..haha

 

[PeterA]

At no point do I remember saying all inexpensive tables are good and all expensive tables compared to all inexpensive tables are OCD. Are you trying to develop some strawman compares to prove AS 2000 is worth the money?

No, not at all. Value is determined by the buyer, and I’m not discussing my turntable nor creating a strawman. For some reason you seem to be bringing other subjects into the discussion.

You were talking about expensive, turntables being jewelry and implying their owners had OCD. I just disagree with the comment as I’ve heard more expensive turntables sound better than less expensive turntables and vice versa by the way. I think a lot of expensive and inexpensive turntables are ugly and some look great. Anyone with any turntable can suffer from OCD. Or not. You seem to imply that these characteristics only apply to expensive turntables and their owners.

 

[PeterA]

For me it's not important how long the turntable spins, it's just a sign that it's well constructed.
Much more important is how consistently the energy from the drive acts on the turntable and helps it to achieve an absolutely stable speed.
There's no better way to do this than with a heavy turntable combined with a heavy flywheel. Once you've heard something like that, normal turntables are hard to bear(a little exaggerated).
You have to listen toall your LPs again, because there's a completely different stability to the sounds, whether it's piano or bass, for example.
It will be finished in the summer, when all the rotating parts will be powder-coated the same color, and will look nicer.for me the final solution.View attachment 143186

I agree with you about the stability of the sound. I hear it as a calmness. That’s an interesting looking project you’ve got going. Have you experimented with non- stretch belts or threads? Have you experimented with tension and different torque from the motor?

 

[bonzo75]

You were talking about expensive, turntables being jewelry and implying their owners had OCD.

Yes they are. Your compare to Denon DP4SF didn’t change anything. Your are right value is determined by buyer, you should chat about your TT on Wadax and Varese forums as those source owners also rate the value of their toys

 

[PeterA]

I am thinking aloud here, but would not friction act as a damper in the motor-belt-platter system? And some damping is positive to avoid peaking resonances.. So a very low friction may cause motor irregularities to easier transfer to the platter- only inertia acting and no damping- ?

I don’t know the answer to that, but it’s an interesting question. The approach here is a very high inertia and very little influence from the motor through a fairly loose thread. The motor has to do very little to keep the platter rotating and motor noise traveling to the platter over the thread is reduced by the tension and type of thread.

 

[PeterA]

Yes they are. Your compare to Denon DP4SF didn’t change anything. Your are right value is determined by buyer, you should chat about your TT on Wadax and Varese forums as those source owners also rate the value of their toys

The Denon was introduced as one example of a good even excellent sounding turntable for not much money. I consider it an excellent value. I have no idea what else you are talking about. You can’t seem to support your jewelry or OCD comment.

 

[microstrip]

Yes i have been in contact with Ernst, his system is plug in for Studer machines, i am not a electrical wizard like you !

Do not tell our purists about the Studer, the Studer/Revox controllers use a PLL based feedback system. Serious audiophiles are are supposed to hear the continuous error and correction system catching the speed! As far as I remember the original Apolyt turntable (around 1990) used a Revox motor and control board sourced from a B77.