Are there any "giant-killer" speakers?

[microstrip]

Agreed with Frantz and others here about Maggies, they make the music from so many other more expensive speakers sound DOA by comparison

It is easy to find some expensive speakers that we consider outperformed by much lower cost ones - we just pick those which we personally do not like or a flawed design. The challenging question is finding one that outperforms ANY more expensive speaker!

 

[daytona600]

Sanders Sound Systems - Model 10C - voted for these with my wallet

 

[rblnr]

It is easy to find some expensive speakers that we consider outperformed by much lower cost ones - we just pick those which we personally do not like or a flawed design. The challenging question is finding one that outperforms ANY more expensive speaker!

There isn't a lower cost speaker that outperforms ANY more expensive speaker -- one that outperforms MANY or MOST is enough to be called giant-killer IMO.

The problem with Maggies is they take over the room, so they're not doable for everyone. Smaller, more conventionally-sized box speakers I think punch way above their weight include Zu, and The Clue (caveat -- a small 1k speaker I sell) -- what they have in common with Maggies is basic dynamic engagement and an open presentation while sounding tonally correct.

 

[soundArgument]

Sanders Sound Systems - Model 10C - voted for these with my wallet

Didn't buy them but agree with you that they're giant killers. So much better than many of the megabuck conventional designs out there.

 

[microstrip]

There isn't a lower cost speaker that outperforms ANY more expensive speaker -- one that outperforms MANY or MOST is enough to be called giant-killer IMO.

The problem with Maggies is they take over the room, so they're not doable for everyone. Smaller, more conventionally-sized box speakers I think punch way above their weight include Zu, and The Clue (caveat -- a small 1k speaker I sell) -- what they have in common with Maggies is basic dynamic engagement and an open presentation while sounding tonally correct.

There is a huge difference between MANY and MOST - this is the source of MOST of our disagreements!

My main problem with Maggies has always been that they need to be played somewhat louder to sound good and integrated. Although current models are better performers in this aspect than older ones it is still a problem for many users. But I really like the sound of Maggies with Audio Research - still a fantastic match IMHO. I still keep a vintage Audio Research EC22 with crossover cards for the ribbon tweeter of the MG3.3 - the treble of this system was one of my great experiences of the past.

 

[Orb]

Who are the giants? And how do you kill them?

Kill giant speakers with acoustic treatment beanstalks
Downside using giant beanstalks for acoustic treatment, they will dominate the room.
Cheers
Orb

 

[audio.bill]

And what subS work w/the Maggies - that are as invisible, and fast?

The Magnepan 3.7i speakers compare very favorably to many much more expensive speakers, as has been documented by TAS in their recent show reports and reviews. Their only real shortcoming is in their bass extension which is lacking in comparison with conventional full range speakers. I have recently added a Martin Logan BalancedForce 210 powered sub to my system, and it is a spectacular combination. With their optional PBK room equalization system (only $100), it efficiently addresses typical room influenced bass problems. Check out the short video on the PBK page to see how it works, it is very effective. With the addition of this sub I now have fully extended 20Hz bass that integrates well in the room and seamlessly with the Maggies. I cannot perceive any of the sound as coming from the sub, it just adds the missing lower frequencies. It not only adds bass extension with stunningly articulate impact, but also creates a much more realistic sense of the recording venue's acoustic space and its reverberation. I should also note that the build and finish quality of the sub is exceptional. I got the $200 upgraded finish of high gloss black cherrywood and it is flawless. Highly recommended!

 

[FrantzM]

And what subS work w/the Maggies - that are as invisible, and fast?

Spirit

I am not clear on what you mean by "invisible".. If you're delaing with Maggies, you are in the domain of big,large very visible speakers any subs however big shouldn't be a problem in term of visibility thus...

If by "invisible" however you mean, " integrated ","seamless transition" then I would surmise that this is matter of ... well .. integration and it can be achieved to the extent that subs and the Magneplanars are one in term of sound ... This is outside the scope of this thread but let it be known that it can be done and with superb results

 

[FrantzM]

There is a huge difference between MANY and MOST - this is the source of MOST of our disagreements!

My main problem with Maggies has always been that they need to be played somewhat louder to sound good and integrated. Although current models are better performers in this aspect than older ones it is still a problem for many users. But I really like the sound of Maggies with Audio Research - still a fantastic match IMHO. I still keep a vintage Audio Research EC22 with crossover cards for the ribbon tweeter of the MG3.3 - the treble of this system was one of my great experiences of the past.

Agreed . New better models are better but not by a mile ...

 

[wisnon]

These speakers (Grahams) good excellent feedback in Munich 2015:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1wx_Uzm-WQ

 

[audioguy]

Of ALL of the speakers I have either owned or heard, ONLY the Maggies (a 20.x pair) driven with ginormous Audio Research tube amps (and preamp) convinced me I was hearing a live piano. I was in a mall in some foreign country, heard a live piano playing and went searching for it. Only to find an audio store playing these Maggies. I have never been able to get that sound out of my head. It was erie to say the least.

When it came that time to change speakers, I called the only store that sold Maggies in Atlanta at the time, gave them a few days to properly set them up and when I showed up, they didn't sound as good as a pair of $300 speakers. Zero of the Maggie Magic. As in NONE!!! They had NO idea how to set them up. I purchased another brand from another store.

 

[wisnon]

Audioguy, Heil (air velocity transformers) drivers and the 5-octave Rowen LMT ( Linear Motion Transformers) drivers are more than capable of doing extremely realistic piano reproduction as they are VERY fast.

http://rowen.ch/en/tech.php

 

[rblnr]

I'be heard Maggies well integrated with subs, a longtime Maggie guy I know favors subs with multiple smaller drivers citing the speed issue among other things.

 

[Robh3606]

Check put the Revel Performa series. They are reasonable and sound quite good. I own a pair of F 206's they do a lot right.

Rob

 

[Al M.]

bonzo- why don't you stop pissing on everyone's opinion. its getting real old.

we get it, there is nothing better than horns and a lampi in your world and you listen to more live music than anyone here.

RonR really liked Spirit's system with the Zu's, just sayin'.

 

[Fidach Lad]

What is a "giant-killer" anyway? To me it has nothing to do with a specific brand, so I won't bother to name any, but rather a speaker whose equal pricepoint just sounds vastly superior to one's own ears than any other. Thereby for me it's not brand specific.

Giant speakers, such as the big Wilsons, MBLs, and YG Acoustics (to name only 3 brands) require equally giant equipment to feed them and room with superb acoustics to make them sound their best. There is no way to kill them for what they do for those who like the sound these systems make.

It is the same with SET systems, although there are perhaps more ways to be a giant in SET. You can do it with 1.5 up to 70W+ and you don't necessarily need refrigerator-sized horns to do it, either, but the supporting equipment and room still have to be giants in their own regard.

What do the rest of us poor slobs do? Neither struggling or experience, or even struggling + experience, are perfect substitutes for lots of money in the bank. Despite that, I have seen from experience that many people do find their way to systems that are ever more in tune with their ears and brains, despite a wealth constraint (and different preferences for the goods of all kinds they buy).

It makes no sense to me to look for audio equipment that is a giant killer. I also find it pretentious and/or delusional to call some of the aforenamed speakers, here, "giant killers". Can't we be satisfied by "they sound great to me" and few pats on the bank from our audio friends and even our wives?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

My apologies. But why are you listed as being the author of the B&W802D subjective review? http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/1205bw/#q5wzkQLuvBJI4Hbv.97

Because I wrote that one. However, I did not write the Zu review and I mistakenly thought you were referring to that one. I amended that post but my point about knowing your reviewers remains. Reviews are opinion, not fact.

 

[edorr]

Bit of a different angle, but in my experience any very good speaker that depreciates dramtically and can be found for 30% of MSRP on the used market can be a giant killer. I once owned Revel Studio (the original) for $4K, and it could easily compete with five figure "giants".

 

[bonzo75]

I also think MCH is a giant killer.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Bit of a different angle, but in my experience any very good speaker that depreciates dramtically and can be found for 30% of MSRP on the used market can be a giant killer. I once owned Revel Studio (the original) for $4K, and it could easily compete with five figure "giants".

This! And my Genesis G7.1f's are my living proof of it.