Audiophile power cords vs. the cables in your walls

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,448
13,475
2,710
London
Gary Koh wrote some very interesting posts on power cables in WBF years ago, explaining the why's of his power cables. Unfortunately his power cables are too stiff to get CE certification and we can't try them in Europe.

What is the issue with stiffness that stops CE certification
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
What is the issue with stiffness that stops CE certification

I do not remember exactly, the information came from Gary Koh. As far as I remember a power cable is also tested for bending capability in a large number of cycles - minimum bending ratio is another parameter.
 

unfairlane

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2020
7
1
70
65
Gary Koh wrote some very interesting posts on power cables in WBF years ago, explaining the why's of his power cables. Unfortunately his power cables are too stiff to get CE certification and we can't try them in Europe.

I`ve done and sold "audio only" pc`s from swedish EKKJ 3x2,5mm. Black rubber-cable with thread-shielding.
 

dan31

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2010
1,016
365
1,153
SF Bay
I have no doubt the PC’s that I have perform better than the stock PC’s from the manufacturer. If you understand the design of your components power supply you can see the potential benefits of a better designed PC. I have all linear power supplies in my system. If you have switch mode supplies different PC’s may have less of an impact.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,024
1,490
520
Eastern WA
Solid core cables come loose and the plugs. There is no plug in existence that can exert enough force to hold solid 12awg once you start wrestling it around. (Well no plug that fits into a wall socket)
 

unfairlane

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2020
7
1
70
65
Solid core cables come loose and the plugs. There is no plug in existence that can exert enough force to hold solid 12awg once you start wrestling it around. (Well no plug that fits into a wall socket)


Really? I have made, used and sold 12awg solid core powercables since the 90`s. Never had any problems
 
  • Like
Reactions: K3RMIT

bazelio

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
2,493
1,745
345
California
Bazelio, how ironic. Dave extols the virtues of CC. But the one place he'll say it has zero benefit is the tt psu.

You're saying you don't hear much benefit from CC...except on yr tt.
I'm not saying I heard improvements on my TT; I'm saying that I don't think TT power cord matters. But I've never dreamed of trying to compare, either. The cord provides power to the controller. My wow/flutter and variation are measurably good. What else do I need?
 

miniguy

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2013
437
168
350
San Diego area
I'm not saying I heard improvements on my TT; I'm saying that I don't think TT power cord matters. But I've never dreamed of trying to compare, either. The cord provides power to the controller. My wow/flutter and variation are measurably good. What else do I need?
You should keep an open mind and not assume that a PC will not affect a TT motor controller. My experience in comparing power cords on my TW-Acustic motor controller has demonstrated the same differences among those power cords when they are used on my electronics. It’s easy to hear, though I understand that all motor controllers are different and may not react similarly.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,606
5,415
1,278
E. England
Thanx Miniguy, if I was to believe some people, I'm imagining things hearing differences upgrading my stock captive pwr cord on tt psu to current choice. You've backed up my experience.
 

miniguy

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2013
437
168
350
San Diego area
Solid core cables come loose and the plugs. There is no plug in existence that can exert enough force to hold solid 12awg once you start wrestling it around. (Well no plug that fits into a wall socket)
FYI, Acoustic Revive makes power cables employing elliptical cross section solid conductors. The conduit style shield apparently improves flexibility. Here is one example, their current top model which uses Furutech NCF connectors.
http://highfidelity.pl/@main-901&lang=en
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,024
1,490
520
Eastern WA
If the metallurgy isn’t just copper, or something a bit odd, it might be more flexible.

Regardless of whether they still work, I wouldn’t trust a single cable with solid copper wire to have good compression at the connector. If you reopen them later after making them then you will probably find what I’ve seen... jiggly wire building up carbon.
 

unfairlane

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2020
7
1
70
65
If the metallurgy isn’t just copper, or something a bit odd, it might be more flexible.

Regardless of whether they still work, I wouldn’t trust a single cable with solid copper wire to have good compression at the connector. If you reopen them later after making them then you will probably find what I’ve seen... jiggly wire building up carbon.

Never happened to me and I`ve been doing this for some time. But you need to be a bit handy, know what you are up against. And understand not to bend a solid conductor too much. But it`s worth it, anything else degrades the "signal".
 

miniguy

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2013
437
168
350
San Diego area
Thanx Miniguy, if I was to believe some people, I'm imagining things hearing differences upgrading my stock captive pwr cord on tt psu to current choice. You've backed up my experience.
And just to drive the point home, look at this. A $5450 retail power cord connected to my motor controller. Crazy, huh? Common sense says it shouldn’t make a difference. But it does.
FFEBC9AE-6318-49C9-9B0C-0F231872CA8C.jpeg
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,778
6,820
1,400
the Upper Midwest
I read somewhere that the Ching Chengs are anything but neutral ( whatever that means) and are in fact highly veiled...leading the listener to believe that what they hear is a change towards neutrality, but in fact once compared to a truly resolving cable that is not veiled-- a realization of how corrupting of the sound quality they truly are!

The above characterization you read somewhere doesn't seem helpful because it begs the question, ie, it assumes what it trys to prove.

Do you have the reference so others may read? Thnx.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,347
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
I estimate that I will get around to comparing power cords between four and six years after I hatch the system. That should give Marty plenty of time to conduct an exhaustive power cord analysis and comparison — so I won’t have to!
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,606
5,415
1,278
E. England
So Ron, his ears and brain are your ears and brain? I'm not sure which one of you I feel more sorry for Lol.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
I estimate that I will get around to comparing power cords between four and six years after I hatch the system. That should give Marty plenty of time to conduct an exhaustive power cord analysis and comparison — so I won’t have to!

Ron,

Power cord experiments are mostly individual experiments. People have very different kinds of power mains systems and mains quality, equipment is also very different. IMHO learning from other people can be a good thing in power cables - it introduces significant bias in the process, speeding decisions! ;)

The main question is that we still do not know for sure what we are looking for in a power cable. IMHO we have two possibilities - to be a non believer or listening to them in order to select a preferred one.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,347
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
I agree, Francisco. But I remain in awe of Marty’s seemingly infinite patience to compare the sonic differences among, for example, different AC outlet metallurgies and power cord plugs. I don’t remotely have the patience — or the interest — for that.

As far as I’m concerned Marty can select the semi-finalists of the power cords, and I will choose by listening myself from among that approved group. And I do like Gary’s Absolute Fidelity, and Cardas Clear Beyond and MasterBuilt Ultra power cords.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing