Audiophile power cords vs. the cables in your walls

[Kingrex]

I have little to no technical understanding why a cord does what it does. Just a superficial appreciation there are technical reasons why they do what they do.

Following the though process to its ends I adressed the power all the way back to my panel. I got my hands on 40 feet of 10 awg ofc cable. I liked what I heard. Even more I took that cable from my panel and put it direct into a power strip I built trying to mimic one of the HD Fowler units. Heck, why do we want a receptacle, and plug, more cable another connector then another connector before were in the power strip.

I use a power strip because I find micro voltage differences matter. I use one circuit for my gear. Some friends I work with use more circuits. I have a power strip to attach 12 or so devices into that circuit.

Something we have all found is grounding and proper attachment at the panel can have a profound impact on sonics. So does just plain old neat and clean wiring behind the rack. Many noise issues can be reduced by massive amounts just adressing that area.

I guess my point is, you can spit and fight over the first or last 6 feet, but don't forget about the 40 or so feet of branch circuit that cord is attached too. The whole system. If you have digital attached to it, you have a another set of grounding and isolation issues you need to address. All before you even get to that attachment cord.

Rex

 

[Kingrex]

Addendum, I put a new QO sub panel in a friends house. In doing so, he had a lot of extra Furutech cord to mess with (His branch from the panel to rack was also cord) so he made two runs of cord from his sub panel to his rack. He powered just his amps on a dedicated circuit and the rest of his system on the other circuit. He liked the results so much I tried it too. I don't know why but my system is much more quiet with 2 circuits rather than 1. I now have one circuit of OFC cord to my power strip with all my front end gear on it. The second circuit is 10 AWG THWN in a steel pipe. I have split bolted my power cords at the junction of branch circuit at the wall to the power cords to my amps. This is the best iteration of power to my rack I have tried to date. Next I need to get another 22 feet of 10 AWG OFC cord and put that that my amps. I want to know how the amps fair on a cord compared to THWN in steel pipe.

 

[Rensselaer]

What about the Mains Conditioners/filters boxes that you plug all your power cords into, helpful or not?

 

[Uk Paul]

I've just seen this thread, as usual plenty of polarized views..

I'm away from my computer and don't enjoy typing much on my phone but:

1. Stranded conductors create noise.
2. Solid core conductors do not.
3. Solid core conductors do not mate well to connectors, and are not malleable enough at required guage to withstand microfracture.
4. Romex is ideal for in wall use.
5. Multiple lines of stranded wire from a distribution board is far from ideal, 10m of stranded wire produces 10x the noise..
6. The ideal option is sitting in between solid and stranded.
7. It took me 32 years to figure this out..

Rgds,
Paul

 

[Folsom]

I've just seen this thread, as usual plenty of polarized views..

I'm away from my computer and don't enjoy typing much on my phone but:

1. Stranded conductors create noise.
2. Solid core conductors do not.
3. Solid core conductors do not mate well to connectors, and are not malleable enough at required guage to withstand microfracture.
4. Romex is ideal for in wall use.
5. Multiple lines of stranded wire from a distribution board is far from ideal, 10m of stranded wire produces 10x the noise..
6. The ideal option is sitting in between solid and stranded.
7. It took me 32 years to figure this out..

Rgds,
Paul

So then everyone who ever measures noise with stranded wires has more noise? No. That is not true. You can prefer the sound of solid all day but this is simply false about the noise.

 

[Uk Paul]

I certainly prefer the sound without noise, whenever a stranded conductor is used the transparency reduces, this is fact.

 

[Folsom]

I certainly prefer the sound without noise, whenever a stranded conductor is used the transparency reduces, this is fact.

I would not argue your experience that for you that is how it sounds, just that it isn't "noise" increasing.

Personally I don't have any desire to try and go solid anywhere but romex (and don't care if it is). I have not had your experience.

 

[Uk Paul]

Personally I don't have any desire to try and go solid anywhere but romex (and don't care if it is). I have not had your experience.

Then why comment? Re read my post, the ideal is between solid and stranded, I'm not about to divulge exactly what on a public forum but can assure you that stranded creates noise that affects transparency.

 

[Folsom]

Then why comment? Re read my post, the ideal is between solid and stranded, I'm not about to divulge exactly what on a public forum but can assure you that stranded creates noise that affects transparency.

Because to say it makes noise is a lie. What you hear may fit your description for transparency as an adjective but objectively there is no noise generated. I think it's only fair people know the basic facts. Just because solid sounds more transparent to you, does not mean you have to justify it (especially with something that is not true).

 

[Uk Paul]

Until you do your homework I'll refrain from further discussion..

 

[DaveC]

Stranded wire adds grain. Some like this, especially at bass frequencies.

Noise? Semantics...

I also want to say THANK YOU @Uk Paul for noting that solid core wire of heavy gauge is not suitable for power cable use. I've seen it far too often, including right here on this site, and it's a serious and potentially dangerous design flaw. You can use litz wire or many runs of smaller diameter wire instead.

Tinned wire is kinda in-between as tin isn't very conductive but it still adds grain and a certain tone to the sound. Tin plated copper is getting popular as a result of vintage WE and modern Duelund wire.

 

[Uk Paul]

Stranded wire adds grain. Some like this, especially at bass frequencies.

Noise? Semantics...

I also want to say THANK YOU @Uk Paul for noting that solid core wire of heavy gauge is not suitable for power cable use. I've seen it far too often, including right here on this site, and it's a serious and potentially dangerous design flaw. You can use litz wire or many runs of smaller diameter wire instead.

Tinned wire is kinda in-between as tin isn't very conductive but it still adds grain and a certain tone to the sound. Tin plated copper is getting popular as a result of vintage WE and modern Duelund wire.

No problem Dave..
Litz is the answer..

 

[Folsom]

Until you do your homework I'll refrain from further discussion..

Post measurements.

 

[assessor43]

I was using aftermarket power cords with my system and then changed to the stock power cables. I have to say that the stock power cables, Ching Cheng I believe do sound more truthful IME. YMMV.

 

[Kingrex]

What about the Mains Conditioners/filters boxes that you plug all your power cords into, helpful or not?

Its sooo equipment dependant. I find, generally, filters you plug into can make the background "Black". I hear the filtration. But sometimes it works for the better.

Filters are trying to get rid of noise. That's why they are called filters. It might be DC. It might be harmonics. It might be radio frequency. But what if you don't have those issues and you add a filter. What did you do to your electrical power now. That filter is still working.

Plug in filters can help the Modem, Router and Switch. Especially if you stream. You have to listen. Its probably a small gain.

Parallel filters plugged into an empty socket are what I find impact the system the least, for good and bad. I use 2 types of parallel filters. Parallel filter are generally trying to provide a path to encourage high frequency noise such as RF out. Others are injecting a signal onto the power grid to try and stabilize the sine wave. Stabilize is the wrong word. But it's intention is to influence sine wave shape.

Ideally you want no filters. You just want a pure clean sine wave. And excellent grounding. And really, most places I see don't have that much wrong with what the utility is providing. They have poor infrastructure, bad grounding and noisy devices in their homes that need to be repaired. Once those are addressed, you hear the filtration you added. It becomes much more apparent what they are doing.
At that point you will probably pull it. Or at least re-evaluate what is plugged into it.
My experience is most stuff will sound better plugged into the wall. But some stuff might really shine plugged into the "correct " filter. You know, the filter that is tuned for the particular issue that is present at your residence. And is synergistic to the piece of equipment that may be sensitive to the type of noise present at your listening space.

Lots of people will tell you their equipment is built to withstand certain types of noise. So why add additional filtration on top of what is already built into your equipment power supply.

And herein lies the rub. These filter devices are individual in how they are made, what they employ etc. They can be specific or broad spectrum. How are you the consumer supposed to know what problems "may" be present in your electrical infrastructure and what equipment might be sensitive to that particular "noise". And then to know what that filter is really doing. Is it overlapping or filling a void with what you plug into it. Is what you plug into it designed in such a way the filter by its very nature will create a negative influence on your gear.

Filters are total hit and miss unless you do a critical evaluation of the whole of everything attached to your audio. From the Utility Strike on you roof to the last inch of wire at your receptacle. Just fix it all. Make it all right. Then assess if anything additional is needed.

 

[audiobomber]

Parallel filters plugged into an empty socket are what I find impact the system the least, for good and bad. I use 2 types of parallel filters. Parallel filter are generally trying to provide a path to encourage high frequency noise such as RF out. Others are injecting a signal onto the power grid to try and stabilize the sine wave. Stabilize is the wrong word. But it's intention is to influence sine wave shape.

Which parallel filters do you recommend, please?

 

[Kingrex]

Which parallel filters do you recommend, please?

I am a dealer for AddPower. But the stuff is amazing for what it does. It is not a filter. It's a line harmonizer. It puts a signal onto your electrical grid. It seems to create nice dynamics and speed. It is very similar to what I heard when I plugged my front end gear into a Shunysta Denali. I have the Symphony and 2 x Electraclear. Around $500


I also use an Akiko Corelli. I am not an Akiko dealer. They are more a RF soak. A drain for high frequency noise. Its sometimes subtle. Sometimes more. I think I spent about $1600.

The AddPower stuff if much more apparent in what it does compared to the Akiko.

I have also had a Environmental Potentials EP2050 in and out. I'm maaaa on it. I very much like its a SPD. But I already have a SqD SPD. It was redundant. And I never really heard any change switching it on and off. About $800.

I am leaning towards getting a Audio Quest 1200 to plug my Modem, Router and Switch LPS's into. I believe it was a subtle gain there, with no harm. But I need to spend more time assessing what is really going on. I believe I am hearing something when I insert it into the system. Its subtle. But digital can make or break over a host of subtle gains building upon one another. Its not a one pony trick. Its many small cumulative steps to achieve the whole.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I use standard 10 amp power cords and don’t believe they make improvements in the sound.

 

[Lampie519]

I use standard 10 amp power cords and don’t believe they make improvements in the sound.

It depends on the current flow (more current more effect it has on the performance).

Try this and it will rock your world !

Jippie charging cables - AV Media Planet B.V.

SpinX Technology? - YouTube

SL_Kabel_AuStn_Spinx_Jat_F40_en.indd (spinxcables.com)

Spin X virtakaapeli | Hifimesta

spinx-brochure.pdf (audiostones.de)

 

[Kingrex]

It depends on the current flow (more current more effect it has on the performance).

Try this and it will rock your world !

Jippie charging cables - AV Media Planet B.V.

SpinX Technology? - YouTube

SL_Kabel_AuStn_Spinx_Jat_F40_en.indd (spinxcables.com)

Spin X virtakaapeli | Hifimesta

spinx-brochure.pdf (audiostones.de)

So they put magnet rings at the ends and plated the copper? Not anything new. I'm not sure the efficacy of magnets. If they worked so well, everyone would use them.

I have heard mixed reviews about plating. Tin has a sound and conducts slower than copper so its not good. Silver conducts faster than copper, but purity becomes an issue. And plate thickness. Its working the rhe skin affect principle of electron flow. But you now have electrons moving a 2 different speeds.