Audiophile power cords vs. the cables in your walls

[Lampie519]

So they put magnet rings at the ends and plated the copper? Not anything new. I'm not sure the efficacy of magnets. If they worked so well, everyone would use them.

No magnets in the cable.... it has been treated and will start a spin (do not confuse with skin effect) effect. This normally is only possible under strong magnetical fields. This cable will be able to do this without but it will take a few hours. Funny thing is that if removed the spinning continues for some time, this makes a cable A/B comparison difficult as the next cable will still benefit from it.

So it is something new !

Petteri Koljonen Inventions, Patents and Patent Applications - Justia Patents Search

Best wishes,
Frank

 

[Folsom]

So they put magnet rings at the ends and plated the copper? Not anything new. I'm not sure the efficacy of magnets. If they worked so well, everyone would use them.

I have heard mixed reviews about plating. Tin has a sound and conducts slower than copper so its not good. Silver conducts faster than copper, but purity becomes an issue. And plate thickness. Its working the rhe skin affect principle of electron flow. But you now have electrons moving a 2 different speeds.

No, I'm afraid it does not conduct faster or slower. They have more or less resistance, not speed. The speed does not change.

 

[DaveC]

Propagation velocity depends mostly on the dielectric, for metals the dielectric constant is infinite so plating shouldn't effect it.

Spin is likely induced by a carbon coating and IME it also adds a bloom to the midrange. I still think UPOCC silver is by far the best possible conductor but I do look forward to seeing if new forms of highly conductive carbon can offer any advantages. So far the answer is no, at least not by any commercially available products. I've seen a graphene coated copper wire offered, but it's expensive and Chinese (which is fine but I won't take their word to be truth as far as this goes, and verifying the wire is indeed graphene coated is not simple).

I also have never seen a magnet-cable beat a good UPOCC silver cable, buy YMMV of course.

 

[Lampie519]

Spin is likely induced by a carbon coating

That it is what they call a "breakthru" ;-)
I use these cables for my power amps and they do deliver what has been promised.
I do think other cables can perform also outstanding but it is worth a try as the price may be steep but not crazy. BTW there is NO second hand market for these cables and these have been on the market here for some time now.

I do not represent them or want to advertise as such , just share an experience that otherwise could be missed as it could be a "sleeper".... and as i am very enthausistic about their perfomance.

One more link and now i shut up about these cables ;-)

Spintronics is one of the most researched technologies worldwide | Spindeco

 

[DaveC]

That it is what they call a "breakthru" ;-)
I use these cables for my power amps and they do deliver what has been promised.
I do think other cables can perform also outstanding but it is worth a try as the price may be steep but not crazy. BTW there is NO second hand market for these cables and these have been on the market here for some time now.

I do not represent them or want to advertise as such , just share an experience that otherwise could be missed as it could be a "sleeper".... and as i am very enthausistic about their perfomance.

One more link and now i shut up about these cables ;-)

Spintronics is one of the most researched technologies worldwide | Spindeco

I've had quite a few customers experiment with various magnet and "graphene" cables but most seem to come back to UPOCC silver or copper after a while. The carbon cables are pretty seductive and have a very black background (absolutely not in the "natural sound" way, lol), seem to reduce noise really well... but it colors the midrange and over time it gets old, at least for me. Best use of carbon is in the ground leg of a power distributor, this seems to work well without adding that midrange coloration.

I think one of the most important things in a power cable is low inductance, a characteristic impedance close to the load normally seen by the PC, low contact resistance, a ground wire with low impedance at high frequencies and one that is more isolated and not simply twisted with the hot and neutral in a 3 strand twist. Material quality is equally important with UPOCC silver achieving the best conductivity and overall neutrality, and teflon being the best dielectric that prevents exposure to air, which prevents corrosion. Finally, the cable must be able to be bent with fatiguing it. Many cables are not capable of many bend cycles before they will be damaged, either due to overall design or the use of solid-core conductors of too large a diameter.

Anyways, I'd be interested to see what you think, I do offer free demos if you ever want to compare with a UPOCC silver cable.

PSR-14 & PSR-11 Silver Ribbon Power Cable – Zenwave Audio: the ultimate high-end audio cables

zenwaveaudio.com

 

[witchdoctor]

My Virtual Dynamic Nite power cables use magnets, are about 2 meters long, and were roughly $1000 each. They use Speed of Light” technology, along with Cryo Enhancement and ProTecX treatement. The speed of light technology was created to deal with the magnetic fields formed by the circuits within audio components, which interfere with the flow of energy through the conductive pathways. The three conductors are solid-core copper, chosen because of its ability to eliminate linear distortion.
What would a comparable UPOCC Silver power cable cost?

 

[Kingrex]

No, I'm afraid it does not conduct faster or slower. They have more or less resistance, not speed. The speed does not change.

True. Good catch. More accurate to say more electrons can flow for a given size with silver compared to copper.
And I have also been told, tarnished silver still has very high conductivity compared to tarnished copper or Aluminum.
Gold does not conduct as well as silver or copper, but it never tarnishes.

 

[Lampie519]

"NEP-series power cord cables use world-patented UP-OCC Technology"

Can anyone please point me where i can find this patent as i have difficulties finding it. It should mentioned on their website i suppose if they make such a claim.

Thanks in advance !

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/c5/fb/d2/561cf9b66871c0/US20200136012A1.pdf

 

[Blue58]

"NEP-series power cord cables use world-patented UP-OCC Technology"

Can anyone please point me where i can find this patent as i have difficulties finding it. It should mentioned on their website i suppose if they make such a claim.

Thanks in advance !

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/c5/fb/d2/561cf9b66871c0/US20200136012A1.pdf

I couldn’t find the patent but found this interesting reading for the weekend.
https://www.audiosensibility.com/information_links/Solidification_Pub_OCC_Excerpt_0.PDF

 

[DaveC]

"NEP-series power cord cables use world-patented UP-OCC Technology"

Can anyone please point me where i can find this patent as i have difficulties finding it. It should mentioned on their website i suppose if they make such a claim.

Thanks in advance !

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/c5/fb/d2/561cf9b66871c0/US20200136012A1.pdf

The patent is for the UPOCC process and was granted in 1991 in Japan to Dr Ohno. So it's expired, but Neotech is one of the few that licensed the tech while the patent was active and IMO they make the best wire in the world for audio use.

 

[DaveC]

True. Good catch. More accurate to say more electrons can flow for a given size with silver compared to copper.
And I have also been told, tarnished silver still has very high conductivity compared to tarnished copper or Aluminum.
Gold does not conduct as well as silver or copper, but it never tarnishes.

Tarnished silver does NOT have high conductivity, this is a lie spread by irresponsible and immoral people who sell cables without proper insulation.

Silver corrodes into several different compounds, inc. silver sulphide and imo it's ridiculous to think that tarnished wire is acceptable. Silver wire WILL corrode if left exposed to air.

 

[Kingrex]

Tarnished silver does NOT have high conductivity, this is a lie spread by irresponsible and immoral people who sell cables without proper insulation.

Silver corrodes into several different compounds, inc. silver sulphide and imo it's ridiculous to think that tarnished wire is acceptable. Silver wire WILL corrode if left exposed to air.

They plate most all switchboard and panelboard interior bus bars at SqD with Silver. Cheap loadcenters get tin. My custom panelnoard manufacturer uses silver plate bus bars for the same reason. They are a 3rd generation business and feel different than you. It is not done to waste money. It promotes longevity and reliable performance. A power cord is only 10% or less of the total power delivery system to your stereo. To much money end emphasis is given to cords. Of course no one wants tarnish, but its impossible to stop unless you plate with gold. And even then its only slowed. And every insertion in and out of a pressure contact is damage to the surface and a degredation of finish.

 

[DaveC]

They plate most all switchboard and panelboard interior bus bars at SqD with Silver. Cheap loadcenters get tin. My custom panelnoard manufacturer uses silver plate bus bars for the same reason. They are a 3rd generation business and feel different than you. It is not done to waste money. It promotes longevity and reliable performance. A power cord is only 10% or less of the total power delivery system to your stereo. To much money end emphasis is given to cords. Of course no one wants tarnish, but its impossible to stop unless you plate with gold. And even then its only slowed. And every insertion in and out of a pressure contact is damage to the surface and a degredation of finish.

Not the same as solid silver wire.

IDK why but silver plating often does not corrode at all while solid silver does.

Look, it's very easy to prove what I said is correct. The process of silver tarnishing, the molecules created and their associated physical properties are no mystery.

 

[Kingrex]

Tarnished silver does NOT have high conductivity, this is a lie spread by irresponsible and immoral people who sell cables without proper insulation.

Silver corrodes into several different compounds, inc. silver sulphide and imo it's ridiculous to think that tarnished wire is acceptable. Silver wire WILL corrode if left exposed to air.

How about convincing us that 2 copper wire jointed together with a bunch of green corrosion, or 2 aluminum wires joined together with white powder oxide are conducting better than 2 silver wires with black tarnish. I believe the manufacturer that disagree with you believe the silver under age and degraded conditons is doing a better job than the copper or aluminum.

But yes, no one wants age to damage their gear, but everything gets old.

 

[DaveC]

How about convincing us that 2 copper wire jointed together with a bunch of green corrosion, or 2 aluminum wires joined together with white powder oxide are conducting better than 2 silver wires with black tarnish. I believe the manufacturer that disagree with you believe the silver under age and degraded conditons is doing a better job than the copper or aluminum.

But yes, no one wants age to damage their gear, but everything gets old.

I doubt anyone is disagreeing with me, I'm not talking about power panels, I'm talking about cables which CAN be fully protected from corrosion simply by using insulated wire and protecting terminations by one of several methods.

Many people sell cables that can corrode over time for no reason other than they think an "air dielectric" is a good idea. They claim that silver corrosion is fine and not an issue. They are wrong and they are liars.

In power panels there are different considerations and it's not my area of expertise, my comments have nothing to do with breaker panels or switches.

 

[Uk Paul]

It is an unfortunate situation where air dielectric does provide superior sonics in signal cables, but ultimately (unless held within vacuum conditions) will slowly degrade over time. The key thing being 'time', the volume of air that is surrounding the conductor and whether that is within a sealed chamber so to speak or not will affect rate of tarnish. Audio frequencies also luckily are more immune to the effects than HF digital transmission systems. All dielectrics affect the signal to some degree, and all precious metals oxidise at varying rates.. Oh for a wireless world!

 

[Folsom]

They plate most all switchboard and panelboard interior bus bars at SqD with Silver. Cheap loadcenters get tin. My custom panelnoard manufacturer uses silver plate bus bars for the same reason. They are a 3rd generation business and feel different than you. It is not done to waste money. It promotes longevity and reliable performance. A power cord is only 10% or less of the total power delivery system to your stereo. To much money end emphasis is given to cords. Of course no one wants tarnish, but its impossible to stop unless you plate with gold. And even then its only slowed. And every insertion in and out of a pressure contact is damage to the surface and a degredation of finish.

SquareD Homeline is tin plated aluminum.
SquareD QO is tin coated copper.

They don't have silver. The QO is much better, a good choice.

 

[DaveC]

It is an unfortunate situation where air dielectric does provide superior sonics in signal cables, but ultimately (unless held within vacuum conditions) will slowly degrade over time. The key thing being 'time', the volume of air that is surrounding the conductor and whether that is within a sealed chamber so to speak or not will affect rate of tarnish. Audio frequencies also luckily are more immune to the effects than HF digital transmission systems. All dielectrics affect the signal to some degree, and all precious metals oxide at varying rates.. Oh for a wireless world!

You can also use an inert gas but sealing a wire in a teflon tube filled with inert gas isn't trivial!

 

[Kingrex]

SquareD Homeline is tin plated aluminum.
SquareD QO is tin coated copper.

They don't have user silver. The QO is much better, a good choice.

Homeline and QO loadcenters are inexpensive consumer products. And therefore tin plated metal. Their switchboards, switchgear and ILine panelboards are silver plate.

You can order bolt on QO panelboards with silver plated busbar. It's an upcharge. Or at least you could 7 years ago when I worked there. Schneider Electric who bought them is doing everything they can to dumb down the offerings. Reduce selection options and quality. They don't want to be in the custom manufacturers market. They want inexperienced college grads to be able to pick standard items from an online selector guide. They want the plants to stamp out one size fits all products. They still have good gear, but Eaton is making a better bolt on 20 amp breaker for single phase pabelboards than Square D. I moved to the Eaton product line when customers want the best. I use SqD QO for all off the shelf projects. I may change to Eaton. It's just easy to specify SqD and have it available in most markets as it can always be bought at Home Depot for dirt cheap prices.

 

[Folsom]

Homeline and QO loadcenters are inexpensive consumer products. And therefore tin plated metal. Their switchboards, switchgear and ILine panelboards are silver plate.

You can order bolt on QO panelboards with silver plated busbar. It's an upcharge. Or at least you could 7 years ago when I worked there. Schneider Electric who bought them is doing everything they can to dumb down the offerings. Reduce selection options and quality. They don't want to be in the custom manufacturers market. They want inexperienced college grads to be able to pick standard items from an online selector guide. They want the plants to stamp out one size fits all products. They still have good gear, but Eaton is making a better bolt on 20 amp breaker for single phase pabelboards than Square D. I moved to the Eaton product line when customers want the best. I use SqD QO for all off the shelf projects. I may change to Eaton. It's just easy to specify SqD and have it available in most markets as it can always be bought at Home Depot for dirt cheap prices.

Yikes, cheaper power products are only good for home builders, which may make them rebuilders…