Best turntable under 50k?
- Thread starter Frankie67
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It seems that we do not share the same opinions on turntables, including the Brinkmann. I do agree with you that the belt drive Brinkmann is better than the DD Bardo. To each his own, Bonzo.
My mint SX 8000 II was less than $45K. It sounded better than the TechDAS AF1 using my AS2000 to triangulate. In other words, I preferred the AS2000 to the AF1 in Rockitman's system by a lot, no comparison, and a very different type sound. In my system, the SX 8000 II did not sound as good as the AS2000, but it was much closer, and the same type of sound, just not quite the mass and resolution. The AF1 is damped and dull sounding at more than twice the price of the big Micro. The Micro is a good value relative to the turntables that sound slightly better, but cost a lot more.
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I agree about the Micro 8000 MK II, I would take it over the Airforce One any day! Considering the prices of current high end TTs, I do think the Micro 8000 MK II is a good value comparatively!
Peter, interested to know whether you had the chance to audition the Micro SZ 1, and if so, how did it compare to the 8000 MK II ? Thanks
Hello thekong, I have not heard the SZ 1. The only person I know who has directly compared the two is David Karmeli. The base of the SZ 1 is apparently much heavier and contributes to the sound.
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I have heard it a few times, but not in a comparison, and only once with the proper copper tonearm cables where it sounded spectacular.
Here is a nice write up introducing the big Micros:
Beyond Turntables-Micro Seiki SZ-1t, SX-8000II & SX-8000
We’ll start with Micro Seiki company for the first “Beyond” installment. I don’t have many details about the company’s history but I remember that they hit the ground running in the 70’s with their amazing DDX-1000 turntable. The basic design elements of this table, high mass, high inertia with...
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This is not very difficult. Marc Gomez has advised tang to consider the Brinkmann above the expensive ones he was purchasing at that time including the AF1p. I personally think you have any experience with the balance but that’s fine to state opinions
I also don’t rate tables that have been tried and tested only on 3012r. The micro also is generally used with only a couple of vintage arms usually, and people are constantly fiddling around to improve an already expensive purchase
Oh yes. And I wouldn’t use for compares anymore notes from a system with pass electronics and Wilsons. Just because you wouldn’t be able to hear much differences, they will be suffocated by that lack of dynamic range
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I agree there are many elements to good turntable design and performance although I probably difer on the priority of those elements, rather than gauging one as dominant. Yes, resonance control and quietness are very important.
Imo the audibility of stable accurate speed is not limited to warbling or decay sustain from piano notes, the absence of which are cited by many as stable accuracy. Hearing wow and flutter is at the extreme.
The turntable is the source of time, the system's clock. The frequency element, the time element of the waveform comes from the turntable. Note structure involving leading edge, harmonic development, decay and spacing between notes -- temporal organization if you will -- are impacted by speed accuracy. There is a sense of coherence, of grip from speed accurate and stable tables, the way simultaneous lines and phrases maintain the integrity of their tempos. This is part (but not all) of the source of relaxed sound of which you write.
It's not absurd at all.
Turntables more than any other component (aside from tonearms and cartridges) are at a point where improvements are expensive and not readily appreciated by all.
As many know, many fields are that way, from sports cars to other activities.
Look at the price differences among PC graphics cards, for example.
As an example the SAT turntable and tonearm are ridiculously priced… but I've never heard better.
I do not see what Marc Gomez’s opinion has to do with it. We all have opinions. The best way to fully understand the quality of a turntable is to live with it for a time in one’s own system. I only really heard the Bardo and Balance two or three times each both at a dealership and at a hobbyist’s home. Perhaps I do not fully appreciate its quality. I have also read Ron’s reports of his new Brinkmann professionally set up.
Is your favorite turntable still the VYGER?
Yes Vyger RS, but it is more of a system with its LT and vacuum etc. Also, it cannot house the Dava on the LT
Peter, I understand your triangulation, but that doesn’t mean it’s correct. I’ve personally set up and compared the AF1P, AF3P, and SME 30/12 turntables. I’ve spent countless hours listening to them—not at a dealer’s showroom, but as if they were my own. More importantly, I’ve listened to at least two or more examples of each model. I’ve compared them using the same cartridge, and also with superior arms beyond the Graham Elite.
In my experience, one of the most important duties of a turntable is to provide a silent, noise-free platform for the tonearm and cartridge to perform their best. The AF1P is far from being damped or dull—it’s an exceptionally silent and dynamic turntable, perhaps one of the best available. The key is pairing these top-tier turntables with dynamic tonearms. Unfortunately, the SME 3012R, while listenable, is not a dynamic arm. Its poor, ineffective knife-edge bearings and mediocre, rolled-off cables hinder its performance. When paired with a turntable as revealing as the AF1P, the shortcomings of the SME 3012R become evident. Its listenable character is still present, but the dullness comes from the SME 3012R, not the AF1P.
As you move down the performance ladder in turntables, noise becomes more apparent—not in the traditional sense, but in a lack of clarity and refinement. For example, compare a Kuzma to a Project, and you’ll notice the difference. While the SME 3012R can still be enjoyable and may pair well with less precisely engineered turntables, it’s not among the best.
By the way, I think the SX 8000 II is not the equivalent of the AF1P. Its true counterpart is the AF3P, and I highly doubt the SX 8000 II matches the AF3P’s level of silence and dynamic performance.
Last but not least, the SME 30/12 is not in the same league as the AF1P or AF3P. There is nothing comparable between the AF1P and the SME 30/12. I love SME turntables and tonearms—in fact, I use two SME arms myself—but I’m fully aware of their limitations.
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I compared the AF1 to the AS2000 using both a Graham phantom and SME 3012R. The difference was clear in both cases. The similarity of the AF1 and SME is the air and O ring suspension. They both create a sound that enhances while it isolates. The signature is clear. The AF3 does not have that and sounds better to me. Talk to people who deflate the air base on the Micro SX8000 II to learn which way sounds more like music to them.
I think basically the presentation is different and everyone has a preference and different opinion. And most people do not like the SME 3012R. It does sound quite different from the more damped V-12.
This hasn't been my finding. All that have heard it will tell you that the SX-8000 II is clearly in the same class as the AF1. But I do agree with your findings on the knife-edge SME's.
When I was considering a new turntable I was asking Imai from Audio Tekne what he thought of my system which was CSport TAT2M2 with 3012R. He didn’t know CSPort but looked it up and said the table was acceptable because it was belt (string) drive with no feedback. However, he said the 3012R was the weak point and that arm could never sound natural due to the bearing and design.
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