Vienna

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Dear Milan,

indeed I have dealt with some controllers and motors of different types.
I do believe on the importance of the speed stability, which should be independent from the groove modulation. Unfortunately I am one of those, who can feel the speed variation and this can drive me crazy, my daughter can feel it too. On the other hand, my wife and son are leading a happier life as they do not care.

Speed stability is offering me a superior involving sound experience and keeps me involved for hours. Speed accuracy on the other hand is of secondary importance as it is affecting the pitch.

The speed stability and speed accuracy are directly associated with the interaction of the motor, the belt, the platter’s rotational mass ( rotational mass simplified ; how easy or difficult is to rotate the platter or to stop it once it is rotating and depends upon the platter’s mass and how this mass is distributed) and the bearing’s (bearing and thrust) quality.

None of the above elements (motor, belt, platter, bearing) can provide independently or alone, the speed stability and or speed accuracy. These are the fruits of well designed and engineered turntable and Brinkmann did it with Balance. The synergy of these elements is such that no speed feedback of any form is needed.

In regards with your question whether I hear a significant difference, my answer is definitely yes. But again to this question , probably you will get different answers from different listeners, who can (or can’t) feel the speed variation even in tiny amounts.

p.s. besides motors and controllers, I have extensively experimented with different belt shapes and materials as well as different bearings and thrust plates.
 
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Lagonda

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Dear Milan,

indeed I have dealt with some controllers and motors of different types.
I do believe on the importance of the speed stability, which should be independent from the groove modulation. Unfortunately I am one of those, who can feel the speed variation and this can drive me crazy, my daughter can feel it too. On the other hand, my wife and son are leading a happier life as they do not care.

Speed stability is offering me a superior involving sound experience and keeps me involved for hours. Speed accuracy on the other hand is of secondary importance as it is affecting the pitch.

The speed stability and speed accuracy are directly associated with the interaction of the motor, the belt, the platter’s rotational mass ( rotational mass simplified ; how easy or difficult is to rotate the platter or to stop it once it is rotating and depends upon the platter’s mass and how this mass is distributed) and the bearing’s (bearing and thrust) quality.

None of the above elements (motor, belt, platter, bearing) can provide independently or alone, the speed stability and or speed accuracy. These are the fruits of well designed and engineered turntable and Brinkmann did it with Balance. The synergy of these elements is such that no speed feedback of any form is needed.

In regards with your question whether I hear a significant difference, my answer is definitely yes. But again to this question , probably you will get different answers from different listeners, who can (or can’t) feel the speed variation even in tiny amounts.

p.s. besides motors and controllers, I have extensively experimented with different belt shapes and materials as well as different bearings and thrust plates.
Thank you Savvas. Do you hear a difference of 0,05 rpm if the speed is stable ? I can not ! If you change the speed to 33.38 rpm instead of 33.33 rpm and it is not fluctuating, i can not hear the difference. But the micro pulsating of a ac motor with a low number of poles corresponds into bad sound, even if the speed is absolutely stable numerically o_O Let me correct the statement and say that bad sound is of course relative ;)
 

Vienna

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Oct 14, 2018
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Thank you Savvas. Do you hear a difference of 0,05 rpm if the speed is stable ? I can not ! If you change the speed to 33.38 rpm instead of 33.33 rpm and it is not fluctuating, i can not hear the difference. But the micro pulsating of a ac motor with a low number of poles corresponds into bad sound, even if the speed is absolutely stable numerically o_O
It’s what I wrote you, the speed stability matters more than speed accuracy. I agree with you on your AC motors findings, I used to own the worst ever ac motor the Hurst, driven by the worst possible controller, the ADS
 

DetroitVinylRob

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Dec 29, 2016
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I know a guy that has 100 of those belts lying around, and not enough years left to live, to use them all ! ;)
@Kcin , i am strongly suggesting you to get EPDM calibrated belt for your Balance.
By doing so, I am experiencing much higher speed accuracy and improved lower wow/flutter.
With the original belt the measured wow/flutter was 0.0622% (https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/brinkmann-balance-kuzma-4p.31089/#post-663940), with the EPDM belt, the measured wow/flutter (with Analogue Magik) is 0.0542, much better than many direct drives.

View attachment 72349

P.S. Unthinkable performance of the super silent Brinkmann motor, power supply and bearing, especially when you will consider that Helmut is using an all analogue controller and no speed feed back and of course no hall sensors
second one to ask, and a source for these EPDM belts?
 

Vienna

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Lat: 37.907962N Long:023.714655E
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tima

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Mar 4, 2014
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It’s what I wrote you, the speed stability matters more than speed accuracy. I agree with you on your AC motors findings, I used to own the worst ever ac motor the Hurst, driven by the worst possible controller, the ADS

Quite the adventure you've had moving on from VPI. It's been fun to read.
 
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DetroitVinylRob

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2016
31
27
85
Metropolitan Detroit area, MI
It’s what I wrote you, the speed stability matters more than speed accuracy. I agree with you on your AC motors findings, I used to own the worst ever ac motor the Hurst, driven by the worst possible controller, the ADS
It’s an interesting observation and I would agree from my listening, speed stability more than (absolute) speed accuracy is key. Not surprisingly different then how we perceive frequency of say, selective notes played from a actual musical instrument. Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn spoke of this in their research and listening with power supplies/speed controls for the Sondek Lp12 in contrast to the direct-drive speed accuracy focus and advertising of those days.

Really good timbre is a function of stability.

To know where we are or might be going, it is sometimes helpful to look where we came from, ah?

 
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Vienna

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Since 1985, two elements have only changed on Brinkmann Balance design during these 36 years of continuous production. The motor once (the noisy Pabst motor was replaced by the very silent Brinkmann Sinus at mid 2006) and the optional Ront tube power supply (three times).

Brinkmann is one of the very few turntable manufacturers who has designed and is manufacturing his own motors and power supplies. He is also one of the few that keeps Balance turntable all-analogue, from the Power Supply to the Controller and Motor.

Surprisingly without the use of any feedback or hall sensors he is achieving an exemplary speed stability and speed accuracy.

While I am waiting for the delivery of the Ront III, I searched the Internet archives , for the Ront evolution from the first generation to the current

I used the ‘WayBack Machine ‘ and had the chance to visit Brinkmann’s site and notes as early as of 2001.

194F85D0-DAC2-4D68-B837-EA621CA68D28.jpeg

Originally, the Ront power supply was conceived as a concept for isolating the power line from the motor and controller supply line. Brinkmann’s idea was to provide the PABST motor and controller, with purified power. As a result end-users , were reporting increased clarity, openness and spaciousness.

Ront first generation was using 2x EC360, 2x 6Bw4 and one 6111w soldered on the circuit

C3959C99-81B2-47BC-83EE-54CF18DC9723.jpeg
22F61995-0CE6-4A6C-8313-770A94913BDF.jpeg

With the introduction of Sinus motors, the need of increased current to feed them, led to the redesign of Ront in a Class A single ended topology, which among others offered a further improvement in terms of smoothness and transparency.

The tube supply utilized two high current low resistance pentodes (PL36) and one full wave rectifier (5AR4). All tubes intended for long life. Secondary AC voltage is rectified by the full wave rectifier and fed to both of the output pentodes via a line choke reducing even more mains noise. The output voltage is stabilized by controlling the output pentode stage

ADA2F1ED-8E4B-41A2-88D5-FB0933F11411.jpeg

From Brinkmann’s Analogue Manual :



The optional RöNt II tube power supply is especially made for the direct drive motors of the Oasis and Bardo—as well as the new Sinus motors of the Balance and Spyder—and fits their demands of start-up, drive and stand-by current consumption perfectly. It delivers a stabilized output voltage of 24VDC; the output is short circuit proof.

The output voltage ramps down when the current exceeds 500mA, which is more than the motors need during start up. Once the platters reach proper speed the current draw is much less, as it is during stand-by.

The tube supply utilizes two high current low resistance tetrodes (PL36) and a full wave rectifier (5AR4). All tubes are made for long life; the tetrodes are good for 10000 hours under full load (which is by far not needed here).

Secondary AC voltage is rectified by the full wave rectifier and directly fed to the current tetrodes. A filter network of capacitors and a choke feed a clean voltage of about 180VDC to the regulating tetrodes. The output voltage of 24VDC is controlled by referencing to a temperature-stabilized voltage reference.

For start-up, the motor of the turntable needs about 450mA for the first brief moment, then the current drops to about 80mA. You may reduce the start-up current draw by giving the platter a push. (As the Direct Drive motor used in both Bardo and Oasis was purpose-designed for slow and gentle start-up, giving the platter a light push will expedite start-up.)

When switched to stop, the supply reduces the output current to about 60mA, just enough to hold the motor electronics under current for the next start. The tube supply may remain in this stand-by state (motor „stop“) for a long time, but to increase the tubes life, please switch off the mains switch when the supply is not used for some time like overnight.


Ront III introduced some weeks ago.
As per Brinkmann, the need to do so was triggered by the quality inconsistency of the today production vacuum tubes and the rarity of quality NOS tubes. Therefore for Helmut and Matthias, the design and production of their tube, was the logical thing to get over the problem
Brinkmann BZ34 (which has unlimited lifespan and flawless reliability), through its complex circuit, emulates the function and sound of the GZ34 NOS Mullard tube, without its downsides of wear and failure. It can also be installed to Ront II power supplies.
Besides the introduction of BZ34, Brinkmann has made some circuit modifications, he has re-designed the high voltage path and has upgraded the transformers.

FEE4EFEF-505D-4BD1-A7ED-EEAEF60FEA88.jpeg
 

Lagonda

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Very cool report Savvas ! Can't wait to hear your impression of the new controller compared to the original one, you know i love this stuff. Im always baffled how much difference in sound a good controller and motor can make :)
 
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