I have been a satisfied user of Airforce3 and the only thing I can say about this products is that I do not feel any sound quality issues and need to upgrade to anything else. This is only opinion without the experience of comparing to the others. I know my opinion may not be of any help to you but in reality it is hard to audition more than two high end table at one time. I hope you will pick the right one.
Brinkmann Balance.
- Thread starter Gary J
- Start date
I totally disagree brinkmann is lush, or less dynamic. But DDs and idlers have a different rhythm for rock. Difficult to explain unless you hear. Classical requires a lot of nuance and continuity that is better on Brinkmann, and the linearity through midbass on Brinkmann is among the best I know across tables. As mentioned, read the Fremer review. He will write the same thing. The music you listen to requires less nuance but a pace and rythm that good idlers do better. There are very few high end idlers, but Tang's EMT is one of them and is in the EU closer to you. And it appreciates in price.
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There's a good deal available on a used AF3 in the US at the moment.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa006c-techdas-air-force-3-turntables
(No affiliation to the seller)
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa006c-techdas-air-force-3-turntables
(No affiliation to the seller)
I have a Kuzma XLDC (4pt and ref 313 arms) which I am very pleased with. I don't think it lacks flow - Ked has heard it a few times and I am guessing it is not his cup of tea, he has not actually commented on on the sound of the TT (probably out of politeness!) - we have usually been comparing carts or a phono stage.
I have only heard it in direct comparison to sme 20, 30 (construction easily as good as sme) and LP12. I have heard the M and a Tech das and did not feel the XL was lacking in any way. In fact I missed the weight and authority of the XL although I was, of course, listening to them in isolation in totally different systems to mine. Kevin of Definitive audio likes the Kuzma a lot.
Ones listening tastes also come into the equation - when playing vinyl I listen to a lot of 50s and 60s jazz, some rock, classical piano, the XL excels here
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All TTs have to interact with the arm, cart and phono stage. Ancillary equipment will always infulence the final sound achieved. Needless to say there is no universal TT soultion otherwise the luckier forum members here would not bother with multiple TTs.
I have only heard it in direct comparison to sme 20, 30 (construction easily as good as sme) and LP12. I have heard the M and a Tech das and did not feel the XL was lacking in any way. In fact I missed the weight and authority of the XL although I was, of course, listening to them in isolation in totally different systems to mine. Kevin of Definitive audio likes the Kuzma a lot.
Ones listening tastes also come into the equation - when playing vinyl I listen to a lot of 50s and 60s jazz, some rock, classical piano, the XL excels here
. All TTs have to interact with the arm, cart and phono stage. Ancillary equipment will always infulence the final sound achieved. Needless to say there is no universal TT soultion otherwise the luckier forum members here would not bother with multiple TTs.
I am not commenting on that alone but others.. In belt drives I like brinkmann and Vyger (unless someone is going for very esoteric stuff).
As you might know I view hifi differently. I think most gear is not worthy of owning and spending on, so it really has to slip through the cracks of a massive rejection pile to be accepted.
Below brinkmann I like STST Motus II which is a suspended DD that Solypsa sells in the US, Anamighty in EU, puresound in the UK. Excellent value and musical, a bit compromised.
Some people are quite happy with owning various stuff, they could live happily with any of them and many more including SME etc, while I could not.
As you might know I view hifi differently. I think most gear is not worthy of owning and spending on, so it really has to slip through the cracks of a massive rejection pile to be accepted.
Below brinkmann I like STST Motus II which is a suspended DD that Solypsa sells in the US, Anamighty in EU, puresound in the UK. Excellent value and musical, a bit compromised.
Some people are quite happy with owning various stuff, they could live happily with any of them and many more including SME etc, while I could not.
Most of us consider England a part of Europe Ked, not part of the EU but
still part of Europe
Most of us consider England a part of Europe Ked, not part of the EU but
still part of Europe
Reminds me where in the Earl's Court 1975 concert Robert plant mentioned, glad to be back in England. Sorry, I meant UK.
yes I take your point - your hifi odessy has taken you far and wide and must be fun and informative.
if you weren't a commitment phobe ha ha and purchased a brinkman or Motus, and everything else you would need, my guess is you would probably want to change or upgrade sooner or later. When you listen to a system for a longer period (a few months or more) it does give you another perspective. Plus all the endless hours of fiddling!!
When I swapped my sme for the kuzma I took my "test" vinyls and sme TT to midX audio - yes there were similarities but the kuzma sounded more, to put it simply, enjoyable. When I got it set up at home after a while I was almost exclusively playing vinyl whereas previously, with the sme, I had happily played CDs. The sme had a more clinical nature and often sounded similar to CD - the superiority of the kuzma had not shouted out at me initially but became increasingly obvious over time
The XLDC and M are both preferable to the SME 20 and 30 for me as well. My local dealer uses the 30 in his top end systems, and we both realized that neither of us liked it paired with modern SME arms for similar reasons. We find it more enjoyable with Graham arms, actually. And if Kuzma and SME are seen as sounding alike, then I think someone hasn't done enough listening. Generally, I'm someone who goes to shows and is lucky to find two rooms that leave a positive impression. I was neutral on the Balance but willing to hear it again. One other table I've heard sounding excellent on multiple occasions, despite its looks, is the top end Triangle Art. A couple years ago at California Audio Show, it was easily the best room to my ears (despite only winning runner up), and at that time really left a strong impression on me. That room had one of the most dynamic and alive sounds I've ever heard, anywhere.
I have a Kuzma XLDC (4pt and ref 313 arms) which I am very pleased with. I don't think it lacks flow - Ked has heard it a few times and I am guessing it is not his cup of tea, he has not actually commented on on the sound of the TT (probably out of politeness!) - we have usually been comparing carts or a phono stage.
I have only heard it in direct comparison to sme 20, 30 (construction easily as good as sme) and LP12. I have heard the M and a Tech das and did not feel the XL was lacking in any way. In fact I missed the weight and authority of the XL although I was, of course, listening to them in isolation in totally different systems to mine. Kevin of Definitive audio likes the Kuzma a lot.
Ones listening tastes also come into the equation - when playing vinyl I listen to a lot of 50s and 60s jazz, some rock, classical piano, the XL excels here
All TTs have to interact with the arm, cart and phono stage. Ancillary equipment will always infulence the final sound achieved. Needless to say there is no universal TT soultion otherwise the luckier forum members here would not bother with multiple TTs.
All good points. I listened several times to the Kuzma XL and even considered buying an used one - I only did not get it because the owner did not want to sell it with without the air bearing tonearm.
IMHO the Kuzma XL had greater authority and weight than the SME30, but the SME has an easiness that IMHO is makes it a better choice to large orchestral music, that has intrinsic authority and needs to show its recorded spaciousness. The micro detail on the SME seemed less apparent than on the Kuzma, although always existing there.
The TechDas Airforce One Premium with the platter vacuum on has both aspects in the same package - although I listened to the SMEV for very little time on the TechDas, I now use it mainly the Graham Phantom or the SME3012R.
Anyway, there are many excellent turntables floating around that I like a lot - my choice is always also pushed by the opportunity and deal conditions.The Kuzma XL is high on my list of great turntables I have listened.
Precisely, as you say there are many excellent turntables - we all have our individual listening priorities that will influence equipment purchasing decisions. Plus being lucky enough to be able to make a choice by comparing two or three contenders all fitted with the same arm, cart and through the the same phono is unlikely, at least in the UK.
Also your point about opportunity and deal making will always be a factor.
Hi bonzo 75, Am I right in thinking that you actually own a Kuzma Stabi M? You have probably seen some of my other posts regarding this turntable together with the XL - DC, I'm kind of torn between the two of them, I used to lust after the Brinkmann Balance but...I am over that now! I now have the chance of purchasing either of the Kuzma's, the Stabi M is almost new, as it's only been demonstrated a couple of times and the rest of the time on static display, it's finished in 'walnut', which is a lot more expensive! But I can have it for a good price. The other XL - DC is a used unit but in as new condition also from a good high end dealer, the only difference in this deal is; he will take my turntable in part - ex, my table is an original Jon Palmer 2.5 which I purchased from Jon himself back in 2017, it was his own table and the last one that he made, also finished in 'walnut'. Its a great deck by the way and is highly respected, I have tried a few tonearms on it since owning it; Rega RB 1000, Audio Origami PU7, Graham Phantom B44, and now a Kuzma 4 Point. The difference that tonearm made to the sound was HUGE, that's what led me to checking out Franc's other gear...
PS How do you know that 'Roy Gregory' purchased the Kuzma Stabi M?
Regards,
No I don't. Bazelio owns one. You are quoting an old post of mine when I had liked the M. IIrc Roy Gregory mentioned that in his review. And there is a forum member called Perart1 who knows him.
Shakti was with the techdas designer in Munich when Nishikawa San knocked on various kuzma tables, knocked on the M, and said this is his latest and best, or something like that. Shakti can clarify.
You can email Roy Gregory over audiobeat site for views on the M. Those guys reply to queries. Fremer will also reply.
Shakti was with the techdas designer in Munich when Nishikawa San knocked on various kuzma tables, knocked on the M, and said this is his latest and best, or something like that. Shakti can clarify.
You can email Roy Gregory over audiobeat site for views on the M. Those guys reply to queries. Fremer will also reply.
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Both Palmer and kuzma are in Slovenia near the same airport. Have been to both
Hi spiritofmusic, The Palmer 2.5 ownership has been just great! It is still a great deck! But..after fitting the Kuzma 4 Point tonearm I have been chasing the idea of possibly owning one of the Kuzma turntables mentioned in this thread. I also fancy a change but...hopefully not a sideways move! That's why I am not rushing into anything yet but...time is running out, as I have spend the last 3 months reading up on this.
What is your current deck?
Kind regards,
