Brinkmann Balance.

[bazelio]

bazelio, thanks for the video, the speakers over my computer sounded like all box speakers to me. Some people do not like electrostatics but once I listened to them I could not go to a box speaker ever again. Now this is my opinion only but all box speakers to me sound like a megaphone and I hear the enclosure the cones are in, that sonic signature that overwhelms me that something is wrong and it sounds so unnatural to me but once again that it is just my opinion.

Well we're getting off topic as the idea wasn't to evaluate the speakers themselves, but to get a feel for the musical flow and tone in the video.

That aside, only a closed box can produce that perfect PRaT and recreate dynamics extremely well, IME. For me, planar ribbons / estats are better suited to tweeters only, and even there, they just lack attack. Of course a caveat with enclosures is that they do need to be large enough and well-designed. Ahhh, tradeoffs.

 

[bonzo75]

Well we're getting off topic as the idea wasn't to evaluate the speakers themselves, but to get a feel for the musical flow and tone in the video.

That aside, only a closed box can produce that perfect PRaT and recreate dynamics extremely well, IME. For me, planar ribbons / estats are better suited to tweeters only, and even there, they just lack attack. Of course a caveat with enclosures is that they do need to be large enough and well-designed. Ahhh, tradeoffs.

Then you haven't heard the right restored apogees that make cones sound wimpy while retaining the mids magic

 

[bazelio]

Then you haven't heard the right restored apogees that make cones sound wimpy while retaining the mids magic

Old Apogee is quite good! But you got me there as I haven't heard restored units.

 

[Gary J]

bazelio, I did have a prominent midwest dealer come to my house to let me hear the AMG table and he listened to my system then his opinion was everyone would have my speakers if they weren't so big, he loved what he heard. I have had other audiophiles over that said in their experience nothing can replace the sound my speakers have and these people have listened to all of the best in todays market. I do not want to get off topic here I just want to say everyone has their own likes and dislikes when it comes to audio. You and I are 180 degrees apart but that is ok, different flavors for different people.

 

[bonzo75]

Soundlabs should be great. never hear them with CAT. I want to hear them with the Berning Quadrature Z. They usually need a very big room though, I heard a couple of ultimates I did not like and then once with Gian heard the Majestic with old Spectrals. The Spectrals gave it speed and cleanliness while the stats added the decay. The room was huge though. The other systems with top Ypsilon gear, one with Bel Canto, and an A3 with Krell FPB 600 disappointed

 

[bazelio]

How'd you like the AMG table, GaryJ? I'm assuming the Viella? I'm very familiar with it, and actually have a nice collection of needle drops from a Viella. Nice table, but doesn't stand up to the Kuzma in my experience (evaluated in identical chains).

 

[bazelio]

Also, GaryJ, you might want to go to the next AXPONA. Granted show conditions and unfamiliar chains pose challenges, but you can contact exhibitors in advance and arrange after hours private listening sessions. You can also work with the exhibitors (at least the competent ones) to decompose the individual component sound signatures to try to extrapolate. But, of course, there is no substitute for at-home auditions!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Since the sound at shows is so variable, my guess is this could even add to confusion.
In my particular case, I have a real affection for the little known Spec Corpn GMP-8000 out of Tokyo.
But with no dealer in the U.K., and only two installs in the whole of Europe, I’d be crazy to invest in it.

 

[bazelio]

Since the sound at shows is so variable, my guess is this could even add to confusion.
In my particular case, I have a real affection for the little known Spec Corpn GMP-8000 out of Tokyo.
But with no dealer in the U.K., and only two installs in the whole of Europe, I’d be crazy to invest in it.

If one's choices are to hear something, even outside their own home, vs relying on magazine reviews, I'm still going to suggest the former. ;-)

After hours 1:1 listening sessions can help at shows, but it still relies on the suite being well set up and acoustically competent - which can be a lot to ask. :-/

 

[Gary J]

Long story here, the AMG Viella table had massive feedback problems until I put it on a HRS platform and that cured the problem, even with that the highs were a little bright and the bass did not have the impact and did not go as deep as my basis table. I struggle over built in suspension vs unsuspended tables on isolation platforms.

 

[bazelio]

Long story here, the AMG Viella table had massive feedback problems until I put it on a HRS platform and that cured the problem, even with that the highs were a little bright and the bass did not have the impact and did not go as deep as my basis table. I struggle over built in suspension vs unsuspended tables on isolation platforms.

The AMG table is not bright, so you may have had chain synergy issues. What was the cartridge in use? It was definitely voiced with the HRS granite base, so that's not really an optional accessory for the AMG. I've heard the AMG with Lyra Atlas at my local dealer many times. Excellent combo. I heard it with a Kiseki Purpleheart in another familiar chain - a cart I normally like a lot - and the combo just failed to open up. It sounded muddy. I do agree the Viella is not the last word in base extension, but brightness hasn't ever been an issue with that table for me. And I'm immediately turned off by brightness. I think this highlights the problem you face in general. Once you get the "best reviewed" table into your system, you may have issues with the final sound. Perhaps all is not lost though, if you're willing to tube roll, and utilize tweaks like different component footers and cabling to dial things in, but it's still fairly risky IMO.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Pretty much the story of this thread.
Gary, don’t misunderstand me, we have a lot of sympathy for your plight.
But your chosen course of action leaves tons of possibilities for extreme disappointment.
That’s basically it.

 

[Gary J]

The cartridge used was a Benz ruby z, when used with the Basis table I had no brightness in the sound. I could put the Basis table on any platform and had no feedback problems. I could put the pad of my index finger on top of the turbo arm pivot point and the feedback would drop by 50%.

 

[Gary J]

Spirit, I know in the end I will make the right choice if I take my time. I always leave no stone unturned on every decision I make in life so I will be fine and as I said I will not buy from any dealer that has a no return policy on turntables. I have a HRS base that can be tailored to any turntable I buy for isolation.

 

[bazelio]

The cartridge used was a Benz ruby z, when used with the Basis table I had no brightness in the sound. I could put the Basis table on any platform and had no feedback problems. I could put the pad of my index finger on top of the turbo arm pivot point and the feedback would drop by 50%.

Perhaps the Basis or the arm on your Basis is more damped in general. Maybe you like a more damped sound. Same cart on two different arms = different mass and resulting resonance. I've only heard the original AMG 12" arm on the Viella. I know a couple years ago or so they updated it with an "improved" version. In terms of features and adjustability, it certainly did look improved. Sound wise, I don't know as I've never listened. Incidentally, how can you put your finger on the arm pivot while it's playing? In any event, if the arm has a reservoir for damping fluid, that may have solved it for you. The 4-point has 2 fluid reservoirs and "dipsticks" that you depth-adjust into the reservoirs to dial in damping. Lots of variables!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Gary, , then hopefully, and as a result .

 

[Gary J]

bazelio, the platter was static when this test was done.

 

[PeterA]

Oh no, not the midwest. US is worth living only near LA, Seattle, and NY if you are an audiophile.

That is too funny. What about San Fransisco or Boston? Frank750 has a great system near Chicago and there are quite a few in Texas. David is in Utah and there are many many more that are unknown to us on WBF.

 

[dctom]

It is difficult to compare equipment if one does not live near a large city or have audiophile neighbours.

I had to lug my SME 150 miles to get a side by side audition.

Fremer does not seem to be well disposed to Kuzma TTs. In his opinion the Stabli M lacked the sort of "bloom" he liked, you could interpret that as "colouration". Roy Gregory liked the master tape quality of the M using a kuzma Car cartridge? Go figure as they say.

Gary you might be interested in this ....

Kuzma Stabi M - anyone?

 

[spiritofmusic]

The Stabi M looks as low risk a purchase as one could make.