Cable Modems

Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
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Makes sense re: varying LPS quality. So far I've felt the best about trying a 12v Sbooster BOTW P&P ECO MKII ($400 MSRP) with a Shunyata Venom V14 Digital power cable ($250 MSRP), but it seems silly to spend $650 x 2 to power consumer networking gear that costs $100-150 each.[/QUOTE]
Agree. I have spent way to much on audio. I freak when friends spend $5,000 on a power cord, $2,000 USB and $4,000 interconnect to utilize their $10,000 dac. More in cabling than the equipment.

I have a $5500 DAC with a $700 usb, $1,200 interconnect and $700 power cable. It gets expensive quick.

Digital backbone is odd in that there are not a lot of audiophile pieces. I do have a Linear Solution switch. It was $700 with a power supply. I put HD plex power supplies on my modem and router. $700 or so used. It was a small gain. Noticeable but small. I heard more when I bought the Asus router and let the Surfboard just be a Modem. Have the router assign the IP addresses.

Never tried turning off wifi. I don't think it will do much. My router is quite robust. The Aris Surfboard was way overtaxed trying to be a modem, router and wifi.
 

Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
451
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I average this
840,001,003"SYNC Timing Synchronization failure

I sometimes seem to hang and I see this
24,366,940,615"Dynamic Range Window violation"

I need to figure this out. Is it my PS.
 

zonto

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
22
0
66
I average this
840,001,003"SYNC Timing Synchronization failure

I sometimes seem to hang and I see this
24,366,940,615"Dynamic Range Window violation"

I need to figure this out. Is it my PS.
No way to tell if it is your power supply without doing some experimenting. I would print to PDF or take a screenshot of the event log and of the information showing the downstream and upstream channels you're bonded to. Then re-install the stock power supply on the modem, reboot, and monitor over the subsequent 24-48 hours. After a period of time, I'd then check the channel status page and event log and compare them to your records of the same while the LPS was installed. If you're seeing the same power levels and SNR on your channels and the event log is the same or similar, including dynamic range window violations, then think you can rule out the LPS as the issue. I'd then consider looking at unnecessary splitters, cable connections, or having a technician come out to check the line / node or whether it's another issue on the provider's end.

The event log will likely never be completely clear. There will typically be events like non-response to maintenance requests, etc. But since replacing my Jameco LPS with the stock power supply, I haven't gotten any of the critical errors like dynamic range window violations.

I found a good deal on a certified refurbished Netgear CM1100 (DOCSIS 3.1, similar to Netgear CM1000 v2, including the same Broadcom chip, with another ethernet port for link aggregation) and will try that out when it arrives. Curious to see how it compares to my CM600 that has been rock solid for years.
 
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zonto

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
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As an update to my [previous post], over the last 10 days or so I have now tried a Netgear CM1100 and a CM1000v2 in lieu of my Netgear CM600 cable modem. As a reminder, I have 500 mbps service from my cable provider, and the CM600 is a DOCSIS 3.0 modem that was getting flagged as incompatible with this service tier.

I purchased the CM1100 certified refurbished from Netgear, but unfortunately it had a hardware defect that manifested in the first 24 hours. The ethernet activity lights on the front malfunctioned and stayed a solid amber color, which signifies cables connected to both LAN ports (only LAN1 was connected to my router). This was returned to Netgear for a full refund.

I then purchased a new Netgear CM1000 v2 locally and have been running it for the last five days without any issues. Recall that with my CM600, I was bonding to 20 downstream QAM256 channels, with channels 17–20 having lower SNR than 1–16 and the lowest SNR channel having over 11 million correctable codewords and hundreds of thousands of uncorrectable codewords in less than a day of uptime. With the CM1000 v2, I'm bonding to 16 downstream QAM256 channels and one downstream OFDM channel. I'm bonding to the same three upstream ATDMA channels as the CM600 without issue.

In the last five days:
  • I have zero uncorrectable codewords on the QAM256 channels and one uncorrectable codeword on the OFDM channel (especially impressive given over 20 billion codewords have been transmitted on the OFDM channel).
  • Five of 16 QAM256 channels have correctable codewords, and of those channels the highest number of correctable codewords is five. This is impressive given all of them have transmitted over two billion unerrored codewords.
  • The power levels for the 16 QAM256 channels range from 1 dBmV to 3 dbmV, on average higher and within a tighter range than the CM600. SNR is typically between 39–40.5 dB.
Given the impressive lack of errors, I searched for information on DOCSIS 3.1 error correction. Turns out that DOCSIS 3.0 used "Reed Solomon" error correction, but DOCSIS 3.1 utilizes instead Low Density Parity Check (LDPC). See: https://volpefirm.com/docsis-online/ ("LDPC works much better than Reed Solomon error correction.")

From what I can tell online, the CM1000 differs from the CM1000v2 in that Netgear made some minor changes either to hardware and/or internal functionality but states the performance should be similar if not identical. I have read reviews from some users stating their CM1000 runs hot. I noticed that older stock pictures of the CM1000 stated on the back of the unit that it used a 2.5A power adapter, whereas my CM1000v2 uses only a 1.5A power adapter. Perhaps the older units run hotter due to increased current draw. It appears that retailers for the CM1000 did not update the stock pictures to reflect the actual CM1000v2 unit. The power adapters provided with the CM1100 and CM1000v2 are identical. The CM1000v2 runs about the same temperature as my CM600 did. If anyone chooses to buy a CM1000 and wants to know if it is v2 or not, it will state on the side of the box (so no need to open up).

I'm not able to make any claims re: sound quality differences between the CM600 and CM1000v2, but my connection does appear more stable and I have not noticed as many (maybe any?) streaming glitches on Tidal (little skips). They occurred with some regularity before, and often seemed random. I'm very pleased with the product thus far, and much prefer its looks to the Arris SB8200.
 
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matthias

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Mar 14, 2019
437
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Germany
@Xymox or others:

Did someone try the new ARRIS S33 or NETGEAR CAX30 or CAX80 ?
They seem NOT to have an Intel Puma chipset.

Thanks

Matt
 
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Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
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I killed my SB8200, It turns out, if you drive gigabit service through a modem designed for 600 mbs your going to kill the modem. Mine was dropping to about 6 to 7 mbs until I called and had it reset. Then it would jump to 960 mbs or so for a few days. Then drop. I am now looking to pull the trigger on a ARRIS SURFboard T25 DOCSIS 3.1 Gigabit. It is for 2 Gig service so it should last for 4 or 5 years.
 

zonto

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Apr 13, 2017
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I killed my SB8200, It turns out, if you drive gigabit service through a modem designed for 600 mbs your going to kill the modem. Mine was dropping to about 6 to 7 mbs until I called and had it reset. Then it would jump to 960 mbs or so for a few days. Then drop. I am now looking to pull the trigger on a ARRIS SURFboard T25 DOCSIS 3.1 Gigabit. It is for 2 Gig service so it should last for 4 or 5 years.

Are you sure it wasn't the LPS that killed it? ;)
 

Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
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Are you sure it wasn't the LPS that killed it? ;)
Doubt it. They are only rated for 2 ton4 years and I was running way more bandwidth through it than its rating. And for a couple years it was also doing dounle duty as the router so it was really taxed. But I can not say for sure. I now have a new Ifi premium power supply. Will maybe try some Farads soon.
 

Ultrafast69

VIP/Donor
Aug 28, 2018
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Seattle, WA
I killed my SB8200, It turns out, if you drive gigabit service through a modem designed for 600 mbs your going to kill the modem. Mine was dropping to about 6 to 7 mbs until I called and had it reset. Then it would jump to 960 mbs or so for a few days. Then drop. I am now looking to pull the trigger on a ARRIS SURFboard T25 DOCSIS 3.1 Gigabit. It is for 2 Gig service so it should last for 4 or 5 years.
What makes you think the Arris Surfobard 8200 is designed for 600 mbps? The spec says it is a Gigabit Modem.
 

matthias

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2019
437
147
48
Germany
I killed my SB8200, It turns out, if you drive gigabit service through a modem designed for 600 mbs your going to kill the modem. Mine was dropping to about 6 to 7 mbs until I called and had it reset. Then it would jump to 960 mbs or so for a few days. Then drop. I am now looking to pull the trigger on a ARRIS SURFboard T25 DOCSIS 3.1 Gigabit. It is for 2 Gig service so it should last for 4 or 5 years.

The SB8200 is specified for 10Gbps, the T25 for only 1Gbps.
Further, the T25 has a Puma chipset inside and is a VoIP modem.
So it is inferior to the SB8200, I would NOT buy it.
I would try the new ARRIS S33 which is also speced for 10Gbps.


Matt
 
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Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
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The SB8200 is specified for 10Gbps, the T25 for only 1Gbps.
Further, the T25 has a Puma chipset inside and is a VoIP modem.
So it is inferior to the SB8200, I would NOT buy it.
I would try the new ARRIS S33 which is also speced for 10Gbps.


Matt
I must have misread something on Amazon.
 
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Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
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What makes you think the Arris Surfobard 8200 is designed for 600 mbps? The spec says it is a Gigabit Modem.
I don't know Ed. I had a site up comparing the modems and mynold SB8200 seemed outdated, but rhe Arris site says it is indeed DOCSIS 3.1 and gigabit.
 
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Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
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Looks like I am going to Best Buy today. Maybe I'm wrong again but every SB8200 on Amazon seems to be "Renewed".
 

audiobomber

Member
Oct 13, 2020
30
11
10
Sudbury ON, Canada
The TP Link Archer C7 v2 router comes with a 12v / 2.5A switching wall wart, but I've read that the higher current capability is only needed if you hook up devices to one of the two USB ports. Some users have reported using a 12v / 1A LPS with no issues. I have not noticed any functionality issues using the Jameco 12v / 2A LPS on the router, but I have also not noticed any sonic benefits. Unless my mind is playing tricks on me, it also appears that bass is less impactful than it was when I was using the stock wall wart. I will re-install the stock power supply sometime this week to try and confirm.
I have a TP-Link Archer C9, which uses a 12V 3.3A SMPS. Your post encouraged me to try a 12V iPower that was languishing in a drawer, despite having only a 1.8A power rating. I listened to one song intently with the old PSU, then swapped in the iPower. I was very disappointed to hear an improvement.

I use three linear power supplies in my main system and two in my headphone system, all with conditioners. I've been comfortable believing that I don't need power supply improvements for my NAS or router, because music is just data until it reaches a renderer. Now I'll have to add an LPS for both. More cost, more clutter. Damnit!
 

Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
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Make sure the power supply is robust. I have ruined router and modem with a PS that did not have the propper ampacity.

My new SB8200 is rock solid. No drop in performance for 5 days now.
 

audiobomber

Member
Oct 13, 2020
30
11
10
Sudbury ON, Canada
Make sure the power supply is robust. I have ruined router and modem with a PS that did not have the propper ampacity.

My new SB8200 is rock solid. No drop in performance for 5 days now.
I agree, insufficient current capacity is a danger. I only kept the underrated iPower in use long enough for a trial and kept checking both the router and power supply for overheating.
 

Xymox

Active Member
Apr 17, 2019
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There is a new Broadcom based modem. It has a 2.5Gbps port. All new modems will. The Ubiquity products don't seem to have modern 2.5/5/10 ethernet ports.

I have not cracked open the S33 yet to mod it.. However I will... All routers for the future will need to hook up multigig. So it looks like Ubiquiti is old news.

 

Xymox

Active Member
Apr 17, 2019
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The important part here is latency and jitter for audio. ISPs are all going multigig, so, speeds above 1Gbps will occur like it or not. Its complex getting up past gigabit ethernet. I would assume everyone on this forum is after state of the art in internet performance not just for audio. So EVERYTHING on the network will all need to be multigig. This is a big step. If you use separates it means you will need a new modem, new router ( all multigig ports ) with a serious CPU capable of speeds beyond 1Gbps in real use with a firewall and NAT. I only use Mikrotik routers and these are aprox 22 times faster ( 41 Mpps ) then the best Ubiquiti product.You will need wire in the walls and interconnects that can do at least 2.5Gbps. Switches will need to be multigig. Access points will need to be multigig.

I am all good as all my clients have a Mikrotik router with SFP+ ports and I can drop in 2.5/5/10 SFP+ modules. All the wiring i have done in the last 5 years is cat 7 and recently cat 8. Also single mode fiber to all locations. I fear tho that many people have not kept up with where networking was going.

While its fine to keep all the gear currently for networking in audio, the house router will need to go multigig in order to allow multigig for the rest of the house.

I will mod the S33 modem like crazy and report back here. The S33 looks cool as its latency and jitter looks a magnitude lower. BUT I need to measure that myself before I sign on.

The discussion on the modem is occurring here. https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r32828303-ARRIS-S33
 

Xymox

Active Member
Apr 17, 2019
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The important part of a modem for streaming audio is jitter.. What makes the SB8200 great is its low jitter. I do testing of this. I will test the S33. This is one of many tests I run below. This is what i will be looking at as a reference.

SB8200TCP5mins.gif
 

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