Cable Modems

[Xymox]

Looking at the specs for Ubiquiti the thruput on all of them below the 2.5 Gbps multigig speeds that ISP's are going to and that this S33 modem supports. A router would require at least 2 SFP+ ports so a SFP+ 2.5/5/10 module can be used. OR. Ethernet ports with 2/5/5/10 ports.

This Mikrotik router is a good solution. With a few SFP+ modules for 2.5/5/10 Gbps ethernet plus lots of room for some fiber connections and even some 1Gbps SFP modules this looks good. Its 11 Mpps so WAY faster then a Ubiquiti. It can pass 4Gbps with NAT and Firewall rules. It also can do the newest 28Gbps SFP stuff. This should cover the immd future.. I will mod the **** out of it and remove it internal dual supplies and see if I can put a linear supply right into it with some nice caps. I get it just after xmas.

Amazon for $640 too. The only thing close in Ubiquiti is $1800 and not as good.

Yea.. I have zero interest in Ubiquiti.

CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS | MikroTik

The Connectivity Router - your best companion when it comes to SFP, SFP+ and SFP28 management! 1, 10 and 25 Gbps ports in a single device to make your life easier.

mikrotik.com

I will make a thread for this project. Post some pics. Do testing for jitter. Do some noise spectrum analysis.. Maybe i might even sell some of these if someone wants one.

 

[matthias]

@Xymox

What about the ARRIS AX11000 as a partner for S33?

SURFboard mAX® Pro Mesh Wi-F® 6 System | SURFboard

www.surfboard.com

Thanks

Matt

 

[Xymox]

@Xymox

What about the ARRIS AX11000 as a partner for S33?

SURFboard mAX® Pro Mesh Wi-F® 6 System | SURFboard

www.surfboard.com

Thanks

Matt

Well i do separates. Most of my clients have large homes and need distributed wifi systems, so, its Aruba and they do multigig wifi 6. Of course you need a multigig wire to those access points along with multigig switches and routers.

YES.. If your lucky enough to be able to use a single wifi point. Then simple solutions like this would be great.. I would have to verify that has a Broadcom chip tho.

SMall solution like this tho might have high levels of jitter for audio use. It is what most residential clients will use as long as everything is wifi over a modest number of square feet and nothing wired needs multigig.

 

[Xymox]

Well i do separates. Most of my clients have large homes and need distributed wifi systems, so, its Aruba and they do multigig wifi 6. Of course you need a multigig wire to those access points along with multigig switches and routers.

YES.. If your lucky enough to be able to use a single wifi point. Then simple solutions like this would be great.. I would have to verify that has a Broadcom chip tho.

SMall solution like this tho might have high levels of jitter for audio use. It is what most residential clients will use as long as everything is wifi over a

Wait.. I was confuzed by this device for a min...

Its all wifi.. It would connect to a wireless device with a cable modem.. Its like a wifi 6 repeater. A mesh system.. ANY wifi will have radical amounts of jitter. This device only has gigabit ports..

I don't like creating multiple hop wifi mesh systems. They are very jittery and just dont have good performance for my use.

I do the real thing.. Modem ( cable or fiber ) > High end router > High end multigig PoE switch > Aruba wifi

I then create a "clean networking" path.. Fiber from router > SoTM > Fiber > SoTM all linear supplies with careful attention to galvanic isolation. Taiko Extreme Fiber, CH Precision C1 dual mono with external power supplies.

 

[nenon]

Looking at the specs for Ubiquiti the thruput on all of them below the 2.5 Gbps multigig speeds that ISP's are going to and that this S33 modem supports. A router would require at least 2 SFP+ ports so a SFP+ 2.5/5/10 module can be used. OR. Ethernet ports with 2/5/5/10 ports.

This Mikrotik router is a good solution. With a few SFP+ modules for 2.5/5/10 Gbps ethernet plus lots of room for some fiber connections and even some 1Gbps SFP modules this looks good. Its 11 Mpps so WAY faster then a Ubiquiti. It can pass 4Gbps with NAT and Firewall rules. It also can do the newest 28Gbps SFP stuff. This should cover the immd future.. I will mod the **** out of it and remove it internal dual supplies and see if I can put a linear supply right into it with some nice caps. I get it just after xmas.

Amazon for $640 too. The only thing close in Ubiquiti is $1800 and not as good.

Yea.. I have zero interest in Ubiquiti.

CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS | MikroTik

The Connectivity Router - your best companion when it comes to SFP, SFP+ and SFP28 management! 1, 10 and 25 Gbps ports in a single device to make your life easier.

mikrotik.com

I will make a thread for this project. Post some pics. Do testing for jitter. Do some noise spectrum analysis.. Maybe i might even sell some of these if someone wants one.

Looking forward to your findings. The only reason I use the Ubiquiti is because it is relatively neutral sounding. Most other routers I have tried add/remove stuff to/from the sound I never liked.

 

[Xymox]

Looking forward to your findings. The only reason I use the Ubiquiti is because it is relatively neutral sounding. Most other routers I have tried add/remove stuff to/from the sound I never liked.

"neutral sounding"... The ultimate goal in all audio pursuit..

I am curious about your topology and use. Your router is galvanically ( opto ) isolated from the switch and the switch has the server and renderer on it ? Do you mostly listen to server or internet streaming ?

 

[nenon]

I am curious about your topology and use.

Arris SB8200 cable modem with some upgraded capacitors inside (using Audio Note Kaisei capacitors). Powered by Sean Jacobs DC4 with Mundorf silver/gold DC cable.

The modem connects to my Ubiquiti Edge Router that has also some modified caps and vibration treatment. Also powered by a DC4 and a Mundorf silver/gold DC cable.

The modem and the router are connected with a Sablon ethernet cable.

I have two ethernet cables going out of the Ubiquiti router - a fiber cable going toward my WiFi access points (this theoretically helps me isolate some of the noise of the WiFi access point; I also found it to be a practical improvement) and a Sablon ethernet cable going to my first switch.

The first switch is an upgraded Buffalo switch. It has capacitors that "voiced" it to my taste, Mundorf silver/gold wiring, and a PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock powered by an independant 5V DC rail. The switch and the clock are also powered by a DC4 LPS with Mundorf silver/gold DC cables. A lot of careful chassis damping and vibration treatment was done on the switch.

The second switch is exactly the same as the first - Buffalo, ultraOCXO clock, DC4, Caps, Vibration, etc.

The two switches are connected with a 10 meter FO cable using the PlanetTech SFPs. My server is connected to the second switch with a Sablon Ethernet cable.

 

[Xymox]

Indeed.. The switches are key Have you used any RF dampening material in the switches ? But clean networking switches are a whole different realm beyond this discussion of just modems and routers.. Interesting about vibration dampening, any vibration can of course be picked up thru microphonics and induce jitter. Good point. Linears with toroids produce small amounts of hum. Careful attention to that in a linear is important. You have not happened to use a real spectrum analyzer to explore the RF environment or what all is going on on the boards and metal parts ? i have a Agilent E4402B I am looking forward to poking around in the S33 and router with so I can address stray RF / EMI.

Your galvanically isolated from the router. No packets touch it from the server and no RF or EMI pollutes your clean server side playback. Exactly the way it should be. So your upgraded router and modem are for better AQ for internet streaming ? I have found that disconnecting the router from the clean switches during playback from the server makes no difference in sound quality, have you tried that ? This trick is easy, start a song playing from the server, then, unplug the router connection. The packets will continue to flow thru the switch of course and this elminates all influance of the router side of things. This works until the song ends and the server needs to talk to the ipad or controlling interface.

 

[Xymox]

Hmm... So better clocking in a router and modem would be a good upgrade. That is if I can get some OXCOs in the right freq. I will look at that. Caps are easy in both. I cap the power rails for the chips, not just the main supply caps of course. I will use a bunch of RF absorbing material. I was also thinking about grounding. I am going to look at that more closely. I am also going to take a close look at RF. The ethernet driver chips and the isolation transformers are a bit suspicious.

I don't know tho. All this for internet streamed material. Im not sure there is that much to be gained.

The E4402B also has every software and hardware upgrade and I can look at phase noise. So it will also be interesting to look at phase noise in various places on the router and modem. The -166 dBm DANL, 1 hz rez bandwidth, low freq extension to 1hz and tracking gen make it a fun tool for this work. I prefer this analyzer over modern ones. https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-01953/data-sheets/5989-9815.pdf

 

[nenon]

Have you used any RF dampening material in the switches ?

I have, and it's easy to overdo that. I generally stay away from that these days and get better results from clean power and vibration treatment.

Interesting about vibration dampening

It seems to help a lot. I dampen the chassis. Install Gaia feet. And I mount the OCXO clock on dampers.

You have not happened to use a real spectrum analyzer to explore the RF environment or what all is going on on the boards and metal parts ?

No, I haven't. But it's easy to hear differences between different capacitors, wire, vibration, and clocks. I kind of voiced it by listening.

So your upgraded router and modem are for better AQ for internet streaming ?

Yes, they really improve the SQ of Qobuz.

I have found that disconnecting the router from the clean switches during playback from the server makes no difference in sound quality, have you tried that ? This trick is easy, start a song playing from the server, then, unplug the router connection.

Yes, I've tried many times. Here is the interesting part - disconnecting an upgraded router sounds better than disconnecting a noisy router. That makes me think that somehow the effect of the router is already attached to the stream you are playing, and the buffer in my server cannot completely clean it up. Don't ask me to explain how that works - I have no clue! And I've done IT and network engineering/architecture for 20+ years. I have some theories but nothing that makes complete logical sense.

The packets will continue to flow thru the switch of course and this elminates all influance of the router side of things. This works until the song ends and the server needs to talk to the ipad or controlling interface.

Oh, I guess you are referring to a server/streamer solution. I use a single server - Taiko Extreme style.

So better clocking in a router and modem would be a good upgrade.

Absolutely. I think the Ubiquiti router uses 40 MHz. Haven't got to replacing that but it's on the list.

I will use a bunch of RF absorbing material.

Be careful with that. The 3M sheets can easily overdo it. And that suck the life out of the music, similarly to dampening a room full with absorbers.

I was also thinking about grounding.

I have been playing with grounding too but haven't settled on a particular solution yet.

I don't know tho. All this for internet streamed material. Im not sure there is that much to be gained.

I can't listen Qobuz anymore without my network tweaks. So that must mean something.

Good luck with your project. I may not be very active online until January but would be looking forward to your findings.

 

[Xymox]

GREAT INFO..

Hmmm... Voodoo.. Gawd I hate voodoo in this packet streaming digital world.

Yes I am using a Taiko Extreme with a CH Precision C1d with the X1 supplies and a T1. While EVERY tiny thing on the clean networking side is just stunningly audible and as you point out more flavors then better/worse, disconnecting the fiber to the outside world, IE leaving ONLY the Taiko > SoTM > SoTM > CH as the ONLY networking devices sounds just like having the fiber for the outside world plugged in. BUT your switches sound more modded then these are. I am clocking the SoTMs from the T1. Lots of good SFP and Ethernet.

Gawd... Zillions of combos... Voodoo... Its like personal preferences like speakers, horn VS cone VS stats. I really want to look at these Ethernet links with a spectrum analyzer. I want to look at noise and phase noise of the ethernet physical layer..

So why did you choose Ubiquiti ? I helped beta tested their first router back when their only [product was the UBNT Bullet, hehehe. . While the router was appealing because of root access and linux and I could run Unbound, I prefer Mikrotik for the power and hardware offloading. I also feel Mikrotik has more router experience then Ubiquiti. Count me as old school, but, I always think of UBNT as wifi and Mikrotik at routers.

The project will take me a bit to do. I will start into it next week. I will create a thread and post as I go.

 

[Xymox]

Great to know that it helps streaming A LOT.. So these changes will be worth it.. Thank you...

 

[matthias]

Taiko > SoTM > SoTM > CH

Hi Xymox,

I am just curious, did you try to connect CH directly to Taiko via USB?
Most Taiko owners seem to prefer SQ of the direct USB connection.
A further advantage might be that you can completely disconnect your Taiko/CH from network.
Thanks

Matt

 

[kerisabe]

Arris SB8200 cable modem with some upgraded capacitors inside (using Audio Note Kaisei capacitors). Powered by Sean Jacobs DC4 with Mundorf silver/gold DC cable.

The modem connects to my Ubiquiti Edge Router that has also some modified caps and vibration treatment. Also powered by a DC4 and a Mundorf silver/gold DC cable.

The modem and the router are connected with a Sablon ethernet cable.

I have two ethernet cables going out of the Ubiquiti router - a fiber cable going toward my WiFi access points (this theoretically helps me isolate some of the noise of the WiFi access point; I also found it to be a practical improvement) and a Sablon ethernet cable going to my first switch.

The first switch is an upgraded Buffalo switch. It has capacitors that "voiced" it to my taste, Mundorf silver/gold wiring, and a PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock powered by an independant 5V DC rail. The switch and the clock are also powered by a DC4 LPS with Mundorf silver/gold DC cables. A lot of careful chassis damping and vibration treatment was done on the switch.

The second switch is exactly the same as the first - Buffalo, ultraOCXO clock, DC4, Caps, Vibration, etc.

The two switches are connected with a 10 meter FO cable using the PlanetTech SFPs. My server is connected to the second switch with a Sablon Ethernet cable.

This is great, do you mind sharing some pics of the internals? Would be a great help. Looking forward to seeing the images. Thank you

 

[Xymox]

Hi Xymox,

I am just curious, did you try to connect CH directly to Taiko via USB?
Most Taiko owners seem to prefer SQ of the direct USB connection.
A further advantage might be that you can completely disconnect your Taiko/CH from network.
Thanks

Matt

CH says thier Ethernet sounds better then USB. So it is hooked up that way. BUT I agree, USB would be some much more direct..

 

[Xymox]

This is great, do you mind sharing some pics of the internals? Would be a great help. Looking forward to seeing the images. Thank you

I have moved on to the Arris S33 and don't have any pics of that one. TONS of pics posted on the multigig modem project page. Link

 

[nuway]

So, I might be fortunate to have Att fiber. In your opinion, is there any any potential advantage to having faster fiber speed? I'm at the lowest tier, 100mbps.

It looks like Att is coming out with a new Gateway, the BGW 320-505. I don't know anything about other than it has an integrated ONT, which sounds like a bad idea...

Hi Will, I had the ATT tech today and he installed the new BGW320 on LPS, Did not like the sound streaming from Qobuz (I feel I lost naturalness and resolution) , but will wait for a few days before moving back to BGW210. Did you finally upgrade?

 

[matthias]

My ISP offered me a new modem/router, a Technicolor CGA6444.
It is DOCSIS 3.1 and Wifi6 specified.
Does someone have experiences with this device?
Thanks

Matt

 

[rsrzr]

I’m sure if you are getting 100Mb up and down but only you can determine if it’s fast enough for you. I had the ATT 1Gb fiber for many years ($60 a month) and we streamed everything with no delays and a very quiet network. 1 benefit of the higher speed option is unlimited data and at 1G speeds you can transfer a lot of data. I didn’t use the att router portion of their modem/router. I setup a couple of other routers to do the wifi and used a couple of switches to hook up each room.

 

[Alrainbow]

I use a verizon modem and there router all setup per port
then an audio only router
it’s fed through an emo tech galvanic isolator
this keeps my audio net electrical off the data network
I know fios is fiber but still there devices do add noise from there psu,s