Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[thedudeabides]

Can vinyl get to digital sound and at what price?

That is an interesting idea for a new thread. It might generate an interesting discussion.

Absolutely. Another A v D thread. What a great idea.

 

[AudioHR]

… well, thanks for all the replies… I think I could use a philosophical evening with a bottle of good wine over this ;-)

… I am currently thinking about 2 options,

1.
Buying a Roon Nucleus and using this as „core“ and „server“ instead of my iMac and then going the inhouse networkroute via the router to the music room an installing an ethernet switch in the music room and going into my existing Auralic Aries G1 from there to the DAC

2.
Buying a Antipodes K22 and connecting it straight to the DAC in the music room, thus using it as Roon core, server and streaming bridge and replacing the iMac AND the Auralic Aries G1. As the Antipodes will be placed „behind„ the rounter as far as the signal path is concerned and it will feed the DAC directly I will only need internet/ethernet for the functionality of Roon, therefore also no switch.

I will mainly play direct files that are stored locally, be it ripped CDs oor bought downloads - streaming via services like Qobuz or Tidal are actually only of relevance to explore new music for me…

Any suggestions which solution would bring the better results?

These are just my thoughts to „plunging“ deeper into the digital domain for starters…

cheers,

I would go with option 2.

Antipodes is nice I have the S Series I have heard their Oladra frequently at a friend's place, it is clearly a step or two beyond. Is Antipodes the best option? I certainly don't know but it would be an excellent start!

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Can vinyl get to digital sound and at what price?

Absolutely. Another A v D thread. What a great idea.

Reminds me of discussions I had 15 years ago with DJs and the comments from some hardcore analog proponents like Ricardo Villalobos and Tony Andrews (Funktion One).

Around the same time I stopped buying CDs and vinyl. Shortly afterwards - after several moves within a short period of time, I became aware of the enormous convenience of digital media. No more boxes stuffed with CDs and records, just a storage/media server and a few USB sticks, each with more hi-res tracks than 100 cases with 12 inches.

Fast forward 15 years... Vinyl DJ sets have become an exception.

Analogue sound is more 'chaotic' than digital (not my words, but from an ex-BBC engineer).

Another example: a few years ago I sent a producer a VST of the Roland 303 (analog bass synthesizer with sequencer developed by Tadao Kikumoto in 1981).
After comparing the sound to his original hardware version, he admitted that he would not be able to 'blindly' distinguish an 'original' from the VST > since all hardware versions sound (marginally) different.

Conclusion (apart from recording-dependent variables): you can digitally emulate analog, but try doing it the other way around.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

… well, thanks for all the replies… I think I could use a philosophical evening with a bottle of good wine over this ;-)

… I am currently thinking about 2 options,

1.
Buying a Roon Nucleus and using this as „core“ and „server“ instead of my iMac and then going the inhouse networkroute via the router to the music room an installing an ethernet switch in the music room and going into my existing Auralic Aries G1 from there to the DAC

2.
Buying a Antipodes K22 and connecting it straight to the DAC in the music room, thus using it as Roon core, server and streaming bridge and replacing the iMac AND the Auralic Aries G1. As the Antipodes will be placed „behind„ the rounter as far as the signal path is concerned and it will feed the DAC directly I will only need internet/ethernet for the functionality of Roon, therefore also no switch.

I will mainly play direct files that are stored locally, be it ripped CDs oor bought downloads - streaming via services like Qobuz or Tidal are actually only of relevance to explore new music for me…

Any suggestions which solution would bring the better results?

These are just my thoughts to „plunging“ deeper into the digital domain for starters…

cheers,

9k is a serious amount for a streaming device, even more so if you primarily play locally stored music and already own a proper DAC.
My 2 cents.

 

[skinnyfla]

9k is a serious amount for a streaming device, even more so if you primarily play locally stored music and already own a proper DAC.
My 2 cents.

… considering this is a Roon core, a server and a streaming bridge (incl. reclocker) all in one and with regard to all the „negative“ impact on the sound introduced by noise when using standard setups, it seems quite a bargain and an option to evaluate if differences really are that big…. also with regard to some setups here it’s almost low price… all a question of perspective I suppose…

 

[skinnyfla]

I would go with option 2.

Antipodes is nice I have the S Seriies. I have heard their Oladra frequently at a friend's place, it is clearly a step or two beyond. Is Antipodes the best option? I certainly don't know but it would be an excellent start!

… sounds like something worth trying…

 

[D.Duttilleux]

… considering this is a Roon core, a server and a streaming bridge (incl. reclocker) all in one and with regard to all the „negative“ impact on the sound introduced by noise when using standard setups, it seems quite a bargain and an option to evaluate if differences really are that big…. also with regard to some setups here it’s almost low price… all a question of perspective I suppose…

Not really familiar with Roon > might give it a shot though, but if it's only for discovering new music... there are plenty of alternatives, including spotify and even youtube.
Many uploads on YT are actually WAV/flac files, but throttled while streaming.

Skimmed through this review and I guess it's not for me. I'd rather use a laptop/pc + storage server/NAS + studio DAC (e.g. Antelope).

 

[morricab]

Not really familiar with Roon > might give it a shot though, but if it's only for discovering new music... there are plenty of alternatives, including spotify and even youtube.
Many uploads on YT are actually WAV/flac files, but throttled while streaming.

Skimmed through this review and I guess it's not for me. I'd rather use a laptop/pc + storage server/NAS + studio DAC (e.g. Antelope).

A friend of mine had an Antelope DAC with external power supply (Volticus I think it was called). Typical "meh" sounding D/S dac...I found it to be rather unmusical.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Not really familiar with Roon > might give it a shot though, but if it's only for discovering new music... there are plenty of alternatives, including spotify and even youtube.
Many uploads on YT are actually WAV/flac files, but throttled while streaming.

Skimmed through this review and I guess it's not for me. I'd rather use a laptop/pc + storage server/NAS + studio DAC (e.g. Antelope).

Roon is a streamer/server. Spotify is horrible sound wise and is what my kids use on their phone. With Roon you will need a subscription and yes Spotify will work on Roon yet I do not know why you would use is. Qobuz and Tidal are much better. Way better alternatives to Roon and Spotify on the market.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

9k is a serious amount for a streaming device, even more so if you primarily play locally stored music and already own a proper DAC.
My 2 cents.

Then use a old laptop and an ssd, sound quality will suffer but you do you.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Then use a old laptop and an ssd, sound quality will suffer but you do you.

Use a better powersupply laptop then foobar ramdisk mode 32gb ram load your music(playlist) in there. then use usb reclocker mutec then digital out aes /ebu to your dac.
Then you get a really good sound.

 

[Bobvin]

Most folks who have owned the Taiko Extreme are thrilled with it, and for several years it has been king of the hill. Now with the new Taiko “Olympus” pending release, there will be great prices on used Extreme servers, either from original owner or from Taiko who offers generous trade-in. That would get you way past base camp on the way to top level digital, and IMHO an Extreme makes every DAC sound better. You could then audition DAC to find the flavor you like best. Of course, you can add the ancillary parts router, switch, etc for final tweaking.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Use a better powersupply laptop then foobar ramdisk mode 32gb ram load your music(playlist) in there. then use usb reclocker mutec then digital out aes /ebu to your dac.
Then you get a really good sound.

You get really good sound compared to???
I was an early adapter of Roon SQ was much better than the old Stick Pap with filters. Moved on to the Innuos product line and have not looked back. Just saying these is better out there and better stuff than my Zenith.. However for my purposes the Zenith and LessLoss Echos End R DAC have me in my happy place. Also Innuos Sense interface is perfect for us.

 

[PYP]

Most folks who have owned the Taiko Extreme are thrilled with it, and for several years it has been king of the hill. Now with the new Taiko “Olympus” pending release, there will be great prices on used Extreme servers, either from original owner or from Taiko who offers generous trade-in. That would get you way past base camp on the way to top level digital, and IMHO an Extreme makes every DAC sound better. You could then audition DAC to find the flavor you like best. Of course, you can add the ancillary parts router, switch, etc for final tweaking.

comparative prices might be helpful to @skinnyfla Have made a guess below about the price of a used Extreme.

Antipodes K22 = $9,000 + cost of storage
Grimm MU1 = $10,500 + cost of storage
Taiko Extreme (used) = $19,000? with 2 TB storage

 

[DasguteOhr]

You get really good sound compared to???
I was an early adapter of Roon SQ was much better than the old Stick Pap with filters. Moved on to the Innuos product line and have not looked back. Just saying these is better out there and better stuff than my Zenith.. However for my purposes the Zenith and LessLoss Echos End R DAC have me in my happy place. Also Innuos Sense interface is perfect for us.

Compared to good CD transport like Wadia 7, I lose something absolutely black in the bass. to a la rosita streamer "black hole" I lose some unity in the music I can live with that. You just have to set foobar correctly and use the ASIO driver. I won't change that anymore, the modern software plays lifeless on the other hand, no dynamic like analog (lp)my opion

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Compared to good CD transport like Wadia 7, I lose something absolutely black in the bass. to a la rosita streamer "black hole" I lose some unity in the music I can live with that. You just have to set foobar correctly and use the ASIO driver. I won't change that anymore, the modern software plays lifeless on the other hand, no dynamic like analog (lp)my opion

Glad it works for you. If you had better streaming gear you would know what you are missing. I rip all CD's and I still love you analog (vinyl) for sure. Just using a laptop is not for me. opinion.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Glad it works for you. If you had better streaming gear you would know what you are missing. I rip all CD's and I still love you analog (vinyl) for sure. Just using a laptop is not for me. opinion.

Thanks, if you find a better streamer like la rosita tell me. That the best i ever heared.
No matter how you go about it, the main thing is that you are ultimately happy with it. Many roads lead to Rome.


Exsample vid link how it sound

https://m.facebook.com/video.php/?video_id=768940430347362

 

[hopkins]

Here is a CD track that sounds really good, in my opinion.

It is also available on Qobuz.

I don't see how a well recorded track like this one could really sound any better on vinyl. We will never know, as the album is not available on vinyl

On my system, I think it sounds fabulous, either using speakers or headphones. The guitar and vocals are very clear, there are lots of subtle details, depth, space, presence, etc ... What's not to like?

You don't need the best digital system to appreciate the recording.

The recording is much better than the vast majority of overproduced and boring sounding tracks that you commonly find on "audiophile digital playlists".

I do have many examples, on the other hand, where the digital versions are clearly limited, for whatever reason, and the vinyl version sounds better.

Perhaps the best thing for people to make up their mind about all this is to listen to various recordings on different systems and simply ask themselves whether the sound is really satisfying.

If you want to listen to a wide variety of music and to the best recordings I don't see how you can avoid using both analog and digital.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

A friend of mine had an Antelope DAC with external power supply (Volticus I think it was called). Typical "meh" sounding D/S dac...I found it to be rather unmusical.

That's just an example. You can use any DAC you like, preferably fully balanced and with transformer coupled output.

Personally I don't see merits in additional (re)clocking in hifi context. Of course, it's different in a recording environment.

Any pc/laptop used as a playback device for DSD/WAV/flac files straight into a decent DAC will beat any streaming solution (by definition), as long as it supports UAC2.

 

[skinnyfla]

That's just an example. You can use any DAC you like, preferably fully balanced and with transformer coupled output.

Personally I don't see merits in additional (re)clocking in hifi context. Of course, It's different in a recording environment.

Any pc/laptop used as a playback device for DSD/WAV/flac files straight into a decent DAC will beat any streaming solution (by definition), as long as it supports UAC2.

… and this is so exactly how/why?