Chronosonic XVX.

[metaphacts]

A good friend of mine just received his XVX. I cannot wait to hear it!

In our usual fun "what if" games if I had to pick a price-no-object dynamic driver loudspeaker system today I would choose XVX + Master Subsonics. And I am not a "Wilson person" historically at all. I just think XVX + Master Subsonics is a fantastic system.

I would be curious to know from Metaphacts the theoretical reasons why some listeners might prefer the XVX over the Master Chronosonic. I know at least two people who feel this way, albeit only from brief demos, so this might be totally wrong on exteded comparison. This is puzzling to me because I generally feel that the more midrange driver surface a speaker has, the better.

Could it be the new Alinco midrange driver in the XVX?

Hi Ron,

I may have been in your friend's room last week.

Room size can have much to do with the choice of one over the other. The XVX is so easy (including set up) compared to the WAMM, some potential WAMM owners have ordered XVX. Dealers can install XVX whereas WAMM requires a team from Wilson Audio to lead the install.

Another variable that might come into play as to preference is exactly what WAMM and what XVX they heard and the state of the respective systems in which they were heard. That is, in some locations where both have been played, one might have worked better than the other in a given room/ system scenario.

As for the Alnico mid, the Wilson AudioX Caps, the V material (quieting the gantry/woofer cabinet interface), etc., these are all things that did not exist when the WAMM was originally designed. I would not expect to see these developments go into the WAMM. Daryl believes strongly that the WAMM Master Chronosonic is his father's magnum opus and as such, should not ever be changed.

Bill

 

[LL21]

As for the Alnico mid, the Wilson AudioX Caps, the V material (quieting the gantry/woofer cabinet interface), etc., these are all things that did not exist when the WAMM was originally designed. Bill

Very interesting...on the original X1/Grand Slamm...i had always wished i could take a massive block of HRS damping plates and put it in between the 3 upper modules and the big bass cabinet. In fact, I spoke with HRS about customizing a mass damping solution for the X1 but it was too costly. We ended up putting off-the-shelf mass damping around the edges of the bass cabinet which did a surprising bit...but never came close to what I suspected was possible.

The thing that i have noticed about subsequent generations of Wilson is that the cabinetry became more and more inert and better damped. Now, I notice when you walk past an XLF side of module or rear, it is almost like walking into a sound insulated room. I was surprised when i felt it in my ears and peered into the back of the XLF and it looks like there is a soft damping material on the inner sides of the speaker, and possibley the 2 side panels of the gantry system?

 

[metaphacts]

Very interesting...on the original X1/Grand Slamm...i had always wished i could take a massive block of HRS damping plates and put it in between the 3 upper modules and the big bass cabinet. In fact, I spoke with HRS about customizing a mass damping solution for the X1 but it was too costly. We ended up putting off-the-shelf mass damping around the edges of the bass cabinet which did a surprising bit...but never came close to what I suspected was possible.

The thing that i have noticed about subsequent generations of Wilson is that the cabinetry became more and more inert and better damped. Now, I notice when you walk past an XLF side of module or rear, it is almost like walking into a sound insulated room. I was surprised when i felt it in my ears and peered into the back of the XLF and it looks like there is a soft damping material on the inner sides of the speaker, and possibly the 2 side panels of the gantry system?

V material is not soft. V material sits atop the woofer cabinet where the gantry is mounted as well as in the adjustable truck beds. V and X material are also used to damp the gantry itself.

There is felt on surfaces between individual enclosures. In conjunction with the open gantry, this helps to greatly eliminate unwanted pressure buildup and reflections among the drivers/enclosures. You might notice the trend away from solid wings/side panels. Even the Sasha DAW utilizes cabinet relief and felt dampng between enclosures.

The biggest step toward the cabinets we build today came about a decade ago when Wilson started using Laser Vibrometry to analyze every aspect of cabinet design.

 

[LL21]

V material is not soft. V material sits atop the woofer cabinet where the gantry is mounted as well as in the adjustable truck beds. V and X material are also used to damp the gantry itself.

There is felt on surfaces between individual enclosures. In conjunction with the open gantry, this helps to greatly eliminate unwanted pressure buildup and reflections among the drivers/enclosures. You might notice the trend away from solid wings/side panels. Even the Sasha DAW utilizes cabinet relief and felt dampng between enclosures.

The biggest step toward the cabinets we build today came about a decade ago when Wilson started using Laser Vibrometry to analyze every aspect of cabinet design.

Very interesting. Yes, in the case of the material on top of the bass cabinet...I personally wanted to use the dense, solid HRS Damping plates (solid aluminum and elastomer bonded together?) ...but of course there was no room between the lowest module and the top of the bass cabinet.

In any event, I definitely feel that the XLF enclosure is a leap forward from earlier Wilsons, and no doubt you have moved it forward yet again with XVX. Thanks for the insight.

 

[goernie20]

Hi all - I love watching this thread. This is my first post, I actually feel a bit intimidated reading your insights...! They are so detailed and informative, especially these discussions regarding the XVX. Today and tomorrow I am getting a complete XVX system Installed. I will take photos, share experience with installation, go through the break-in process and share the complete list - SubSonics, XVX, Burmester 909 amps (4), etc. And the room size, treatment... I am so looking forward to this, and I will do my best to explain what I’m hearing and how it changes After break-in. More later...and thank you the WBF folks, what a great resource...

End of unpacking, took 5 people to bring crates in and 3 people to unpack and begin to assemble. Lots of coordination - big mess now, but excited to hear some sounds by EOD tomorrow.

 

[howiebrou]

End of unpacking, took 5 people to bring crates in and 3 people to unpack and begin to assemble. Lots of coordination - big mess now, but excited to hear some sounds by EOD tomorrow.

We share your excitement. Would love to see some unboxing photos as well as the finished product.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I'm not sure this will be of interest to this group, I will try to keep it on point, forgive me if I stray a bit. So, you see 3,330 lbs (8 crates) from wilson. These include the subsonics as well.

The team from AZ is coming (Mike's shop LMC)...in a couple of hours. I'll send my thoughts as we proceed. Hope this is of interest to those on this thread...!

It sure is of interest!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron,

I may have been in your friend's room last week.

Room size can have much to do with the choice of one over the other. The XVX is so easy (including set up) compared to the WAMM, some potential WAMM owners have ordered XVX. Dealers can install XVX whereas WAMM requires a team from Wilson Audio to lead the install.

Another variable that might come into play as to preference is exactly what WAMM and what XVX they heard and the state of the respective systems in which they were heard. That is, in some locations where both have been played, one might have worked better than the other in a given room/ system scenario.

As for the Alnico mid, the Wilson AudioX Caps, the V material (quieting the gantry/woofer cabinet interface), etc., these are all things that did not exist when the WAMM was originally designed. I would not expect to see these developments go into the WAMM. Daryl believes strongly that the WAMM Master Chronosonic is his father's magnum opus and as such, should not ever be changed.

Bill

This is all very interesting. Thank you, Bill!

 

[Tango]

Hi all - I love watching this thread. This is my first post, I actually feel a bit intimidated reading your insights...! They are so detailed and informative, especially these discussions regarding the XVX. Today and tomorrow I am getting a complete XVX system Installed. I will take photos, share experience with installation, go through the break-in process and share the complete list - SubSonics, XVX, Burmester 909 amps (4), etc. And the room size, treatment... I am so looking forward to this, and I will do my best to explain what I’m hearing and how it changes After break-in. More later...and thank you the WBF folks, what a great resource...

Dear sir,

To entertain people in this thread while waiting to hear from you, may I ask what speakers were you using? What amps are you going to run with the new Wilson?

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[LL21]

Dear sir,

To entertain people in this thread while waiting to hear from you, may I ask what speakers were you using? What amps are you going to run with the new Wilson?

Kind regards,
Tang

Hi Tang, I think his earlier post said 4 x Burmester 909s. Should be pretty powerful!

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Tang, I think his earlier post said 4 x Burmester 909s. Should be pretty powerful!

Audio lounge has the 909. Compared it to Nagra on the YG Hailey, which showed how poorly Nagra drives the YG. The 909 was much more powerful. Not natural sound based on my bias / preference / subjective opinion, but the power and drive and effortless ness is there

 

[tima]

I've heard the Alexia 2s at my dealer and while better, they still don't do it for me entirely.

No problem, Keith. I wasn't trying to change your mind. I was more responding to your comment that you hear different instruments from different drivers and cannot 'unhear' that once heard.

My post was relaying the experiment I tried to see if I could replicate your experience, but I could only do so when I sat close to a single speaker and did not sit in my regular listening position. Once I sat where the speakers focused the sound became integrated, a stereo 'image' formed and I heard no instruments off individual drivers. Others in that same listening position experienced the integration as well.

My point being, given our different perceptions the experience of timing integration of sounds coming off multi-driver speakers is perhaps subjective, perhaps stereo imaging and sonic integration is a psycho-acoustic event.

I don't usually read JV Serenius (?) but I'll take a look at his write-up.

We each make our choices. You seemed satisfied with yours as I with mine.

 

[tima]

So maybe the prejudice is actually a fact, and it is the side that is prejudiced not to hear the lack of coherence that should work on their bias. Some things just are, so please don't explain them away with preference or bias.

I think that is largely nonsense. You don't have that access.

What may be a fact is that two people have different experiences under similar conditions listening to music or sound. Who are you to say one person's experience is biased and the other person's experience is 'fact'? Only someone with an agenda would presume such a fatuous claim.

 

[bonzo75]

I think that is largely nonsense. You don't have that access.

What may be a fact is that two people have different experiences under similar conditions listening to music or sound. Who are you to say one person's experience is biased and the other person's experience is 'fact'? Only someone with an agenda would presume such a fatuous claim.

You already quoted this and replied, see post 676 Guess you got frustrated I didn't respond and now upped your ante. Lol. I thought you guys wanted to get back to chronosonic, and I stayed away after the new poster introduced his new toy, but guess you want to keep making these senseless statements as above

I am with Keith on this. And unlike Micro trying to explain away Keith's observation with psychology in post 655 ". Our own prejudice and negative bias are strong parts of this hobby. Once we have a negative experience our minds focus on it and keeps telling us about it ", these generic explanations change nothing. Keith has heard it many times set up by Mcgrath, Maier Shaadi, and others, and I have heard many set ups too. You haven't heard the alternatives, too bad.

 

[microstrip]

(...) And unlike Micro trying to explain away Keith's observation with psychology in post 655 " (...)

Not with "psychology" for those who can understand psycho-acoustics and the fundamentals of stereo sound reproduction, as well as technical aspects related to his JVS quote. It is just my opinion, I hope KeithR will answer me if he thinks I am wrong.

 

[goernie20]

Hi Tang, I think his earlier post said 4 x Burmester 909s. Should be pretty powerful!

Thanks for your interest. Yes, here's what I have coming. 2 XVXs, 2 SubSonics, 4 909 MK5s, I have a Vertere RG, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement Cartridge, Burmester 077 Preamp, Burmester Power Conditioner, 2 Torus (one 240 for the xvx towers and one 120 for the rest of the equipment), The streamer is a Linn with Roon.

I was not a big fan of Wilson before the XVX. I heard hours of the Alexx with the Thor Hammer - it was paired with Mac Amps, I did not like it at all. So, I kept my California Audio Tech towers, which had massive sound, albeit, not refined, the soundstage was Sort of there, they weren't very fast, and I grew tired of them as only the best recorded music sounded good. It was frustrating.

After I read about the XVX in December 2019, (I miss 2019) I went to Scottsdale to listen. They were paired with the 901s. I was blown away. I spent 2 days listening, and I felt the music. I mean really felt it. I am a (poor) musician, however, when I strum the acoustic Martin or a Les Paul, the sound coming through the amp is so present. When I hear a sax in a club, I hear the reed moistened with saliva, the snare, etc. I like the feeling of the music moving through me. That is why I am attracted to the towers - bigger speakers with Big sound.

The exact set up I have being installed today (i'll post some pics) I haven't yet heard. My room is good, its been acoustically designed and treated - this should sound awesome. I am 63 and have the means - for the first time in my life - and I said F'it, I've been searching for perfect sound forever.

I'll keep you posted as I move down this path...

Thanks for reading...

I am posting pics from yesterday.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you for the background information about how you came to love the XVX!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Hi Ron,

I may have been in your friend's room last week.

Room size can have much to do with the choice of one over the other. The XVX is so easy (including set up) compared to the WAMM, some potential WAMM owners have ordered XVX. Dealers can install XVX whereas WAMM requires a team from Wilson Audio to lead the install.

Another variable that might come into play as to preference is exactly what WAMM and what XVX they heard and the state of the respective systems in which they were heard. That is, in some locations where both have been played, one might have worked better than the other in a given room/ system scenario.

As for the Alnico mid, the Wilson AudioX Caps, the V material (quieting the gantry/woofer cabinet interface), etc., these are all things that did not exist when the WAMM was originally designed. I would not expect to see these developments go into the WAMM. Daryl believes strongly that the WAMM Master Chronosonic is his father's magnum opus and as such, should not ever be changed.

Bill

I think daryl has a good point in that last statement.
I must say they look very nicely made.

Seems like were finally getting an owners report after many many pages

Ps i could actually buy a pair if i wanted these days
As they are playing with the same size woofers ( i dont know cabinet size ) i think the xvx are the best bang for buck .
I would be a bit suspicious concerning image height with the wamm though , but i dont know how that plays out in real life off course



Brg hj

 

[andromedaaudio]

Audio lounge has the 909. Compared it to Nagra on the YG Hailey, which showed how poorly Nagra drives the YG. The 909 was much more powerful. Not natural sound based on my bias / preference / subjective opinion, but the power and drive and effortless ness is there

I think its the firsr time i saw you write that , based on ........

 

[bonzo75]

I think its the firsr time i saw you write that , based on ........

Write what