CleanerVinyl multi-frequency ultrasonic tanks and kits

[tima]

CleanerVinyl has been around for a while, offering various rotisseries to fit on ultrasonic tanks.

Yet another alternative: Now they are offering a multi-frequency tank that can run at 40/80/120kHz - something I have not seen in the USC market until now - thus this post. Has a 1 yr warranty. What I do not see is the size in gallons or liters for this machine and no peak power spec, so hard to gauge if its ultrasonic power is adequate.

CleanerVinyl rotisseries, Pro and ProXL look redesigned from what they sold in the past and now include a fan for drying. They also offer a filtration system with a 1 micron filter.

Most interesting, they offer a rotisserie for the Elmasonic P60H and sell that machine as well. The P60H is 5.75L, so a smaller tank. Imo, the dual-frequency Elmasonic tanks are the best on the market; they market to professional services such as dentists and watch/jewelry. Caveat: I have not used every tank. The vast number of tanks marketed to audiophiles are made in China which is what most of the various CleanerVinyl tanks appear to be.

CleanerVinyl - Ultrasonic Vinyl Record Cleaning

CleanerVinyl provides state-of-the-art tools and equipment for ultrasonic vinyl record cleaning. Designed and manufactured in the US by vinyl record enthusiasts. Our products fit on most standard shape industrial ultrasonic cleaners. Modular design enables the development of custom cleaning setups.

www.cleanervinyl.com

 

[treitz3]

Hello and good evening to you, Tim. Do you use this in conjunction with a steam cleaner to augment or all by itself?

Ultrasonic cleaning isn't so much a power thing, as it relates more to a frequency from what I understand. Would you happen to have more insight as to this than what I currently have been told? (I haven't heard of power being part of the equation yet)

Tom

 

[tima]

Hi Tom

I do not use any of the CleanerVinyl products. With my DIY system I do not use a steam cleaner. Today, my understanding of general knowledge about cleaning records suggests a surfactant coupled with some means of record surface agitation is needed for cleaning - to loosen dirt from the record's surface. Ideally this is followed by a pure water rinse. Ultrasonics provide that surface agitation via cavitation, high frequency sound produces bubles of vacuum that expand and compress, ultimately imploding against a record's surface. This release of energy is the scrubbing action for cleaning.

Wrt power: For ultrasonics there is minimum wattage necessary to produce cavitation and this power is associated with sound pressure amplitiude. The higher the frequency, the more power is required. As USC tank volume increases less power (Watts/gallon) is needed to maintain cavitation throughout the tank. As ultrasonic frequency is increased so does the power needed for cavitation. We can thank Neil Antin for this knowledge.

I refer you to Neil's compendium on record cleaning: Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records. (PDF download from The Vinyl Press). See Chapter 14, XIV.1.2

 

[Neil.Antin]

@tima, Tim:

Blackstone sells an ultrasonic generator that operates at 40kHz, 72Khz or 104kHz - CT-Blackstone-Generator-Conversion-Brochure-rev2.pdf (ctgclean.com). Industrial table-top units often have the power generator separate from the tank. Blackstone even has a generator that can operate 40, 80, 120, 140, 170, 220 and 270 kHz - cellmega (ctgclean.com). When fully configured, prices are way above the Elmasonic, but they are generally designed for 10-20 years in an industrial environment.

Zentih Zenith Ultrasonic Cleaners | Waves at Work - Zenith Ultrasonics (zenith-ultrasonics.com) has the patented crossfire system that operates at 40-kHz and 80-kHz simultaneously; a table-top unit that could be used for record cleaning if this listing is correct NEW Zenith Industrial 316L 12"x6"x9" Digital Heated Ultrasonic Cleaner 700358325441 | eBay is not terribly expensive given that it has separate generator, six-40-kHz transducers and six-80-kHz transducers and is intended for industrial use for >10-yrs.

But these industrial units do not have the fancy displays and appearance that is part & parcel of consumer units. These industrial units are intended for a different market.

The Elmasonic with its dual frequency, variable power and different type power modes i.e. pulse-mode, is a very flexible unit and as I wrote some time back, has opportunities that may have yet to be explored; the product build quality and OEM support notwithstanding.

But the build quality, OEM support and power ratings of these low-cost units can be shall we say a challenge to verify. There is no direct OEM technical support you can call and get real info. They can claim anything the want, but there should be some real proof in just measuring how fast does the tank heat from the ultrasonics. We know the Elamsonic has enough ultrasonic power to heat 12L of water enough to require auxiliary cooling for high throughput, and we know by the same observation that the Degritter will do the same after just 2-heavy cycles since it goes into a cooldown cycle and to capitalize the benefits of higher kHz - you need as Tim Allen/Tool Time would say - MORE Power.

Otherwise, is 120kHz going to you that much better cleaning than 80kHz, for records, I would be doubtful. At this point you are well into the relm of diminishing returns, especially knowing that the full capabilities of the Elamsonic for record cleaning may have yet to be explored/exploited.

Take care,
Neil

 

[tima]

@tima, Tim:

Blackstone sells an ultrasonic generator that operates at 40kHz, 72Khz or 104kHz - CT-Blackstone-Generator-Conversion-Brochure-rev2.pdf (ctgclean.com). Industrial table-top units often have the power generator separate from the tank. Blackstone even has a generator that can operate 40, 80, 120, 140, 170, 220 and 270 kHz - cellmega (ctgclean.com). When fully configured, prices are way above the Elmasonic, but they are generally designed for 10-20 years in an industrial environment.

Zentih Zenith Ultrasonic Cleaners | Waves at Work - Zenith Ultrasonics (zenith-ultrasonics.com) has the patented crossfire system that operates at 40-kHz and 80-kHz simultaneously; a table-top unit that could be used for record cleaning if this listing is correct NEW Zenith Industrial 316L 12"x6"x9" Digital Heated Ultrasonic Cleaner 700358325441 | eBay is not terribly expensive given that it has separate generator, six-40-kHz transducers and six-80-kHz transducers and is intended for industrial use for >10-yrs.
...
But these industrial units do not have the fancy displays and appearance that is part & parcel of consumer units. These industrial units are intended for a different market.
Take care,
Neil

Thanks Neil, you always have good information and stay on top of relevant products.

But the build quality, OEM support and power ratings of these low-cost units can be shall we say a challenge to verify.

As I documented in my 3rd article on my early adventures with ultrasonic cleaning, my first ultrasonic tank lasted only 9 months when it experienced a failure in its power regulation. That tank cost $320+shipping direct from China. It would cost ~$200 at that time to ship it to and from China if I sent it to the manufacturer for repair. I chose not to get it repaired.

While the Elmasonic units (mine is a P120H for wash, S120H for rinse) do cost several times more, the build quality and reliability is worth the expense, imo - especially if one has lots of records to clean and a growing collection. Elmaultrasonic.com is a factory authorized dealer for their products located in the US. Tovatech also in the US is an excellent dealer with support. Elma desktop tanks have a 2 year warranty. I've had my wash tank for 4 years. Lots of medical supply houses online with lower prices.

 

[Ozymandias]

@tima, Tim:

Blackstone sells an ultrasonic generator that operates at 40kHz, 72Khz or 104kHz - CT-Blackstone-Generator-Conversion-Brochure-rev2.pdf (ctgclean.com). Industrial table-top units often have the power generator separate from the tank. Blackstone even has a generator that can operate 40, 80, 120, 140, 170, 220 and 270 kHz - cellmega (ctgclean.com). When fully configured, prices are way above the Elmasonic, but they are generally designed for 10-20 years in an industrial environment.

Zentih Zenith Ultrasonic Cleaners | Waves at Work - Zenith Ultrasonics (zenith-ultrasonics.com) has the patented crossfire system that operates at 40-kHz and 80-kHz simultaneously; a table-top unit that could be used for record cleaning if this listing is correct NEW Zenith Industrial 316L 12"x6"x9" Digital Heated Ultrasonic Cleaner 700358325441 | eBay is not terribly expensive given that it has separate generator, six-40-kHz transducers and six-80-kHz transducers and is intended for industrial use for >10-yrs.

But these industrial units do not have the fancy displays and appearance that is part & parcel of consumer units. These industrial units are intended for a different market.

The Elmasonic with its dual frequency, variable power and different type power modes i.e. pulse-mode, is a very flexible unit and as I wrote some time back, has opportunities that may have yet to be explored; the product build quality and OEM support notwithstanding.

But the build quality, OEM support and power ratings of these low-cost units can be shall we say a challenge to verify. There is no direct OEM technical support you can call and get real info. They can claim anything the want, but there should be some real proof in just measuring how fast does the tank heat from the ultrasonics. We know the Elamsonic has enough ultrasonic power to heat 12L of water enough to require auxiliary cooling for high throughput, and we know by the same observation that the Degritter will do the same after just 2-heavy cycles since it goes into a cooldown cycle and to capitalize the benefits of higher kHz - you need as Tim Allen/Tool Time would say - MORE Power.

Otherwise, is 120kHz going to you that much better cleaning than 80kHz, for records, I would be doubtful. At this point you are well into the relm of diminishing returns, especially knowing that the full capabilities of the Elamsonic for record cleaning may have yet to be explored/exploited.

Take care,
Neil

I would be very interested with these units that recommend distilled water only, how the addition of a little Ilford Ilfotol Wetting Agent affects the results. This Ilford product is incredible in its ability to significantly lower the surface tension of water thus allowing complete penetration of water into even the tightest of grooves.

Anyone tried this ... ??

 

[tima]

I would be very interested with these units that recommend distilled water only, how the addition of a little Ilford Ilfotol Wetting Agent affects the results. This Ilford product is incredible in its ability to significantly lower the surface tension of water thus allowing complete penetration of water into even the tightest of grooves.

Anyone tried this ... ??

I recommended and used Ilfotol with my original ultrasonic DIY setup. I found it worked well.

With my current setup, I switched to Tergitol 15-S-9. It too works well but it does not produce as much foam as Ilfotol.

More, starting here, then read the next page or two:

tima's DIY RCM

I bought the 3ml Calibrated Eye Dropper pipettes Neil mentions, and 1 pint of Tergitol 15-S-9 from Talasonline.com ($21.75 + ship) The calibrated pipettes graduated in 1,2 and 3 ml are a perfect tool for adding Tergitol to a tank - very nice, thanks for the suggestion Neil. I emptied the tank of...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Edit: spelling and: Regarding units that recommend no surfactants, only distilled water, I cannot comment on how they would respond to the use of any chemical. I believe some kind of surfactant/soap is necessary for cleaning records.