Degritter Mark II

My experience with DeGritter and static is a no-static charge record in is a no-static charge out record.
How do I know?
I used a very expensive static measurement device, in photo.

Also, my made in the UK Zerostat purchased when they first came out (40 or more years ago?) still works perfect.
 

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It's good the Degritter has a filter, but it is very small. Unknown to me is the Degritter's filter micron rating (pore size); in other words, what size particle will it filter and what size particle is allowed to pass through it at what percentage of the time

Tim,

The DG 'filter' is reticulated foam which is measured in pores-per-inch (PPI) and these foams come in ranges from 4 to 100 PPI https://ufoam.com/images/ufoam/downloads/brochures-tech-info/tis-reticulated-foams2016.pdf . There is no standardized conversion that could find of PPI to some kind of diameter that could then relate it to a sediment filter. The best I have seen is 10-ppi = ~0.1" and 60-ppi = 0.015", so with the DG foam filter rated at best 100-ppi, the equivalent diameter is maybe 0.01" = 250 microns. One caveat is that as the filter clogs it will tend to filter better.

FYI - DG hired a chemist, and they now have a custom blended low-foaming, acid-cleaner that will be available Jun-2024 https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/degritter-users.856572/page-181#post-34490219 that I reviewed here: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/degritter-users.856572/page-181#post-34493113 and https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/degritter-users.856572/page-181#post-34497051. It appears that DG will also be recommending this new cleaner for the DG tabletop units, but from what I can understand, I do not see this new cleaner as a no-rinse cleaner. But curious to see what DG recommends.

Take care,
Neil
 
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When it comes to dusting, using the right tool is crucial. Swiffer dusters, which are disposable, have a positive charge that attracts negatively charged dust particles like a magnet, allowing them to pick up more dust and debris compared to microfiber cloths that rely solely on friction.
This does not fully explain the Swiffer duster. PVC records which on the triboelectric scale are very negative - https://cdn1.byjus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/triboelectric-series-triboelectric-effect.png attract particles & fibers that tend to be positively charged. From this PG patent (edit, here is the patent - https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f8/23/c0/28830e519ced8f/US7803726.pdf ) for the Swiffer Duster, it appears that the duster fibers are those that are low on the Triboelectric series implying that they tend to have a negative charge that attracts positively charged particles and the duster-fiber design is one that traps dust. But these are intended for visible dust and whether they are fragile enough to deposit very small invisible particles (<50-microns) is unknown beyond user experience.
 
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I have never bothered with a separate rinse stage. Doesn't seem like a fail to me. I also believe the "Foam" you see is just unburst bubbles.
 
The DG 'filter' is reticulated foam which is measured in pores-per-inch (PPI) and these foams come in ranges from 4 to 100 PPI https://ufoam.com/images/ufoam/downloads/brochures-tech-info/tis-reticulated-foams2016.pdf . There is no standardized conversion that could find of PPI to some kind of diameter that could then relate it to a sediment filter. The best I have seen is 10-ppi = ~0.1" and 60-ppi = 0.015", so with the DG foam filter rated at best 100-ppi, the equivalent diameter is maybe 0.01" = 250 microns. One caveat is that as the filter clogs it will tend to filter better.

I'm guessing that is cubic inches? Anyone know what is the DG filter size?

Could one of the Degritter users take a picture of a new filter and of a filter after ... what? ... 20 records?

FYI - DG hired a chemist, and they now have a custom blended low-foaming, acid-cleaner that will be available Jun-2024 https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/degritter-users.856572/page-181#post-34490219 that I reviewed here: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/degritter-users.856572/page-181#post-34493113 and https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/degritter-users.856572/page-181#post-34497051. It appears that DG will also be recommending this new cleaner for the DG tabletop units, but from what I can understand, I do not see this new cleaner as a no-rinse cleaner. But curious to see what DG recommends.

That is quite the custom made (complex) chemical. Used for both brushing and ultrasonic? I give them credit for approaching such a product. Any reason it could not work in a 'standard' ultrasonic tank at some temperature?. Any sense of how it might compare with Tergitol 15-S-9 + IPA?
 
FYI: The original DeGritter filters were an off-white color and their latest filters are white-white.
With the off-white filter, after approximately 20 records, clean filter, no noticeable difference compared to new off-white filter.
 
I'm guessing that is cubic inches?
Tim:

The dimensions I provided were simply diameter.
Any reason it could not work in a 'standard' ultrasonic tank at some temperature?. Any sense of how it might compare with Tergitol 15-S-9 + IPA?
Yes and No. The new DG cleaner is very complicated.

First read what Elmasonic say about acid cleaners on page 18 - https://www.elma-ultrasonic.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/P-series-Operating-Instructions.pdf. The common alloy-304/316 stainless steels are sensitive to attack by acids in combination with other contaminants. There is some literature that speaks of triethanolamine (the pH stabilizer) as a corrosion inhibitor and Alconox Citranox which contains triethanolamine indicates: Corrosion inhibited formulation recommended for glass, metal, stainless steel, porcelain, ceramic, plastic, rubber and fiberglass. Can be used on soft metals such as copper, bronze, aluminum, and zinc if rinsed promptly. Corrosion testing may be advisable.

They are using the glycol ether water soluble solvents to do essentially what the Tergitol 15-S-9 + IPA does. But DG cannot use Tergitol 15-S-9 at 0.015% (3x critical micelle concentration (CMC)) because of foam. Also, the DG high frequency (120-kHz) compromises its ability to clean surface soils such as fingerprints that the Elmasonic dual frequency 35/80-kHz with 0.015% Tergitol 15-S-9 + 2.5% IPA excels.

Also, not sure if the DG cleaner use of glycol ethers is not somewhat compromised by the absence of a nonionic surfactant at >CMC and the use propylene glycol based on what DOW writes - https://www.dow.com/documents/110/110-00632-01-glycol-ethers-for-aqueous-cleaners.pdf?iframe=true. Glycol ethers can have a very high evaporation rate which makes them sometimes used (along with some alcohol and ammonium hydroxide) for streak free window cleaners. But the propylene glycol is a fly in the ointment so to say. Also, excessive exposure to some glycol ethers (the BUTYLDIGLYCOLE) can be a health hazard - https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-09/documents/glycol-ethers.pdf. The other glycol ether (1-METHOXY-2-PROPANOL) is safer, but its flammable (89F concentrated) https://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1613.pdf. The actual risk depends on the concentration & exposure.

The 0.015% Tergitol 15-S-9 + 2.5% IPA is very safe non-flammable neutral pH detergent, that is also very safe for the UT tank and materials associated with any pump/filter/cooling system. The 2.5% IPA is complimentary with the Tergitol in two ways - it should reduce its CMC, and it should assist with soil swell the same way as glycol ethers.

Like I have said, the new DG cleaner is complicated. There is a lot going on with this cleaner from the acidity to the glycol ethers to corrosion inhibition along with the cationic surfactant for anti-static and the propylene glycol. A question that comes to mind is how is the user to monitor the cleaner chemistry concentration for extended use in an UT tank? Do they monitor pH, do they monitor TDS, etc.

My initial concern is the bottle they will sell since they say to use 500:1 to 1000:1 which implies the bottle is pretty concentrated and I already wrote, the acid at 2% has a pH so low, you would no longer measure it on the pH scale. But some organic acids such a variation of hydrochloric acid are very safe, http://www.rydlyme.co.uk/images/Files/Specification_Rydlyme_2013.pdf is used for industrial descaling (evaluated this product when I with the Navy to clean biofouling & scale from heat exchangers).

What can I tell you, try if you like, and I am quite sure many people will. Without knowing all the ingredient concentrations, I am sitting this one out and will just monitor the user experiences.

Take care,
Neil
 
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