Great mud slinging going on. I'm enjoying this. The messenger has been flogged. Supporters attacked. Such good stuff.
You keep saying it is fine. The website is not working fine. Any potential buyer of their amps cannot find the info in their website. How can it be fine?LoL
Pure conjecture. DTZ will be fine. Consider that it could be a group of companies that need to restructure part of it, for whatever reason.
I have no doubt that DTZ will continue in one form or another and that present owners will continue to be covered for repairs, etc.
Like most countries, Switzerland has complex rules about trading whilst insolvent. If as reported they manufacture batches when they have enough orders, who would pay a deposit now? If DZ is insolvent, the owner may have personal liability if continuing to trade.i think people need to take a step back here and see the forest from the trees ie the other way round.....
1. the company needs to restructure - which healthy company needs to do that ?
2.Herve did not say at any point that his company is not in trouble - the interviews and all that
3. Roy did nothing wrong but let the community know - there is nothing for him to gain by telling us - lol do you think dartzeel going out of business will increase ch, nagra or goldmund sales? thats ..... naive. The design and sound philosophy of all those brands are all different.
4. If you dont like what he says, go buy a dartzeel component now and bite your toenails off - otherwise if you wont put your finger where the knife is - dont talk bad of someone who has put his neck out and therefore given information for your to consider on. He is not saying do not buy it , he is urging caution and that i respect. You dont want to be cautious - place an order right now ; hell you will even be lauded for saving dartzeel if enough orders come through - go get a 'custom ' unit as herve puts it. No one is stopping anyone from buying a dartzeel component . And if you dont take up this offer to stump up ...well that exposes the hypocrite that empty words cannot fill.
5. So to sum up....Roy advises the community that dartzeel is in trouble , his distributor in the us says that there is a restructure in the works - why do ppl still buy enron shares when the writing is on the wall? because there is always the other camp who dont understand what things mean. I will gladly for those few encourage them to go enron . Well in the case with enron if you are right , you get $$$$$ ; not sure what you get with dartzeel....good music that no one else in the world can make besides the fancy looks? absolutely no other manufacturer with a better component in this world? Same for wisecard and god like Markus....
Why is there even a discussion on this matter ? The information is there for you to consider , no one is making anyone do anything. You dont like it move on ; you like it move on. Stop all the rubbishing and gaslighting here. Feels like the cable naysayers all over again; it always the ppl with no skin in the game that makes the loudest noise. Empty barrels banging together thinking they make music
If you read further in the attached link it talks about amortization of the loan which I presume means that scheduled payments were due during the loan duration and that these weren't end of term lump sum playoffs. I only posted it since in Jay's video Herve mentions in his email response about installment payments and that maybe he was referring to these amortization payments.I hadn't seen the rules. They were 5 year loans with a 2 year extension in case of potential hardship. They would have been granted mid 2020 at the earliest. So repayment would not be due until say mid 2025 at the earliest and up to 2027. It now being 2024 and DartZeel apparently not in production for some months, any such loan does not seem to be the issue.
The loans were up to 10% of turnover. Say DZ had a net margin of 20%, say 18% after tax. 10% of turnover is 2% for 5 years. Such a loan therefore would not have been very large and inability to repay suggests a problem with profits or cash flow. More questions, no answers.
Can @RoyGregory explain?
Click the "Power Nose"You keep saying it is fine. The website is not working fine. Any potential buyer of their amps cannot find the info in their website. How can it be fine?
welcome Herve, to What's Best Forum.Click the "Power Nose"
Not for nothing but clicking the button doesn't seem to provide product info for a potential customer which is what he was alluding toClick the "Power Nose"
Thanks @all2ofme !POST UPDATED with some clarifications after a good find from @matthias (Thank you.)
I wrote that post on the dCS forum. Thanks for linking to it, @buzzlulu
Since I figure cross-posting mightn't make for simple reading and discussion, here's a repurposed version for WBF.
I'm a happy owner of an NHB-18NS and NHB-108 Model Two...with a strong desire to own a pair of NHB-468s one day. I've not heard better amplifiers, and I did much, much listening when I went shopping. If there's substance to these darTZeel stories I'll be gutted for everyone involved. I trust more detail will come out in due course if it has to. Switzerland doesn't strike me as a place you can dodge things. The cop who stopped me at the bottom of the Flüela Pass left me in no doubt about that: "You speed, we take your car."
BUT. My opinion — perhaps contentious — is that "it's my job" is only part of it, Roy, and that the fuller picture is a bit more interesting.
It seems bonkers to me that you feel it's ok to lob a post about darTZeel going out of business into the forums when the PR company you work for (Marketing Effects) represents CH Precision and Wadax and that the same PR company helped “launch a range of revolutionary new digital electronics products.”
Better yet — your wife Louise Ford, is Director of that same PR company and claims on her LinkedIn page to have managed the Spanish company’s “Product Launch Plan” including “managing the press review process”. Presumably some examples of that press review process management are the overwhelmingly positive reviews here and here and here.
I'm not comfortable with how all of that sits in terms of conflicts of interest. You and Louise both work for the same company, have commercial ties to darTZeel competitors (CH Precision and Wadax at least) and are even married. For me, that warrants rather more than the mention at the bottom of the intro page linked to from the GY8 homepage.
Maybe the regular members here knew this. I did not. And there isn't any mention of affiliations with either CH Precision or Wadax on any of the relevant reviews. My opinion is that when you're posting something with potential ramifications like the darTZeel rumour you should declare any conflicts of interest there and then, not assume people will find them on a page on another site.
Reminds me of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy:
“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.’”
@struts summed things up nicely in post #210.Oh please don't gaslight me or anyone else. I am not responsible for anyone but me. I knew his WIFE worked with some audio companies . I don't think this was a secret nor a clandestine conflict. I do like and respect Roy and enjoy talking with him at shows. I don't know what you are trying to say nor do I or anyone else answer to you.
Please tell us the benefits to any of those companies. DZ is a tiny company and if they leave the market , which I hope they don't, I don't see any benefit to anyone. When ARC had problems other tube companies didn't have their sales explode. In my opinion your comment is absurd since when anyone goes out it is bad for the entire Industry, I am sure you have no idea how many pieces DZ sells a year and the removal of such will boost CH sales in any significant way is really a stretch.
These are all small companies this is not Sony going out so Samsung wins. Its not Coke and Pepsi.
Please have a cocktail and leave your troubles behind the world as we know it will survive, the sun will rise tomorrow and there are much greater issues that should concern us all.
Attacking Roy Gregory for direct conflicts of interest and hypocrisy. All good.welcome Herve, to What's Best Forum.
we are having a party in your honor.
best regards, Mike