David Karmeli’s Bionor/Lamm/AS-2000 Audio System

[cjfrbw]

I bet DDK misses his contributions as well; WBF was a free marketing vehicle for him to sell millions of dollars worth of equipment to the members. Nothing hurts more than a self inflicted wound.

You mean he misses WBF's contributions, LOL! I do give him the benefit of the doubt that he is a bit purer in motive than that. I don't think he needs, as a lot of audiophiles, the hassles unless it is for love as much or more than money.

 

[Lagonda]

I bet DDK misses his contributions as well; WBF was a free marketing vehicle for him to sell millions of dollars worth of equipment to the members. Nothing hurts more than a self inflicted wound.

I think ddk did well in audio long before WBF, and will do well long after. I learned a lot from his posts and he always made me laugh ! I miss Tango and Bill too

 

[tima]

A "free marketing vehicle"? My understanding is that WBF charges a fee to all manufacturers and dealers who sell their wares here. If they can get it, I don't have a problem with that. As Milan notes, @ddk gave out advice and priceless information to many without asking a dime.

Spats on, ankles covered.

 

[PeterA]

jeff1225 said:
“I bet DDK misses his contributions as well; WBF was a free marketing vehicle for him to sell millions of dollars worth of equipment to the members. Nothing hurts more than a self inflicted wound.”

Actually not Jeff. You asked him for a lot of advice which he was happy to give you for a while. You then asked me for David‘s cartridge and cable recommendations. It seems you appreciated his free advice whatever the source and who shared it. That all stopped.

David contributed more to this forum than he ever received. And the owners realized this and invited him back publicly. They understood the value of his contributions.

David helped me transform my old system long before I ever bought my first turntable from him. He happily shares his experience and knowledge with others. Just ask member CDK84 who now has a completely new system based on natural sound values.

 

[jeff1225]

A "free marketing vehicle"? My understanding is that WBF charges a fee to all manufacturers and dealers who sell their wares here. If they can get it, I don't have a problem with that. As Milan notes, @ddk gave out advice and priceless information to many without asking a dime.

Spats on, ankles covered.

Some dealers actually support the site by purchasing ads. Some give “free advice” so they can trick the slow minded into thinking they are their “friend.” It’s a smart sales technique when dealing with rubes.

Here’s a great quote from the Art of the Deal, a book written by a guy adept at selling to suckers:

“I’ve never been terribly interested in why people give, because their motivation is rarely what it seems to be, and it’s almost never true altruism.”

 

[Tangram]

I joined WBF in the post-DDK era but I’ve definitely enjoyed reading about him and his approach to audio. Why does a hobby - which is supposed to be fun, first and foremost - create such divisiveness? It strikes me as being incredibly petty.

 

[bonzo75]

I joined WBF in the post-DDK era but I’ve definitely enjoyed reading about him and his approach to audio. Why does a hobby - which is supposed to be fun, first and foremost - create such divisiveness? It strikes me as being incredibly petty.

people are divisive. that’s why we are attracted to debates, camps, schools of thought, being right, etc. audio is amazing that it ticks all those needs also those of sports and sometimes even music

 

[PeterA]

I joined WBF in the post-DDK era but I’ve definitely enjoyed reading about him and his approach to audio. Why does a hobby - which is supposed to be fun, first and foremost - create such divisiveness? It strikes me as being incredibly petty.

Yes, it is petty. These visit to Utah threads that all exist in the DDK sub forum are all about learning and creating friendships and having a good time.

There are quite a few, and they are all worth reading. Alan, Mike, Steve, Bonzo, Ron, and I have all written them. DDK‘s essay about natural sound and the beyond turntables are also worth reading. In my opinion, they are reference articles on this forum.

 

[PeterA]

Some dealers actually support the site by purchasing ads. Some give “free advice” so they can trick the slow minded into thinking they are their “friend.” It’s a smart sales technique when dealing with rubes.

Here’s a great quote from the Art of the Deal, a book written by a guy adept at selling to suckers:

“I’ve never been terribly interested in why people give, because their motivation is rarely what it seems to be, and it’s almost never true altruism.”

Yes, that is a great quote from a very astute observer.

 

[Ron Resnick]

David contributed more to this forum than he ever received.

How are you calculating this assertion?

Partly on the back of my first order of an AS-2000 turntable David built an entire turntable business. David received a great deal from this forum, including actual business.

And the owners realized this

This characterization is false and misleading. You never asked me why I, for one, invited David back, so this is merely an assumption on your part.

In addition to using WBF to help cultivate a successful business, David, like each of us, enjoyed WBF as a regular member in terms of making friends and participating in dialogue.

David was not invited back because "he contributed more to this forum than he ever received." I never made any such calculation. It never even occurred to me to think this way.

I invited him back myself several times because he has incredible high-end audio experience in general; vast expertise in vintage components in particular; he's one of the leading turntable experts in the world; he's probably the world's single leading authority on the SME 3012 tonearm; and -- most of all -- because I knew how much he enjoyed his participation here.

They understood the value of his contributions.

David was a very prominent member, one of the members I personally thought of as a senior member. We have a number of prominent members I personally think of as senior members. These are people who enjoyed the website before I discovered it in 2015.

I personally would welcome back any member -- but especially a senior member -- who enjoyed WBF but chose to leave as a result of some controversy, drama or misunderstanding. Via telephone voicemail messages and emails and third-party back-channel requests I invited Bill back around 10 times.

 

[PeterA]

I invited him back myself several times because he has incredible high-end audio experience in general; vast expertise in vintage components in particular; he's one of the leading turntable experts in the world; he's probably the world's single leading authority on the SME 3012 tonearm; and -- most of all -- because I know how much he enjoyed his participation here.


David was a very prominent member, one of the members I personally thought of as a senior member. We have a number of prominent members I personally think of as senior members. These are people who enjoyed the website before I discovered it in 2015.

I personally would welcome back any member -- but especially a senior member -- who enjoyed WBF but chose to leave as a result of some controversy, drama or misunderstanding. Via telephone voicemail message and email and third-party back-channel requests I invited Bill back around 10 times.

How about this? They participated for mutual benefit, like any free exchange, until it was no longer mutually beneficial. At least we can still reference their posts.

 

[MarcelNL]

Yes, that is a great quote from a very astute observer.

OT, and very much so perhaps....although that observation might be true for some, is it not a major waste to miss out on what people have to truly give from the heart due to a generalization or a cynical POV ?

 

[tima]

I personally would welcome back any member -- but especially a senior member -- who enjoyed WBF but chose to leave ...

You can't afford to lose too many more.

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Sad state of afairs from the amazing first post of this thread to now. A lot of fingers pointed one direction. Maybe if a mirror was included within the pointing we could lay this to rest for good and maybe David might come back, this place is better with him present.
Let the egos rest.

 

[jeff1225]

You can't afford to lose too many more.

I can name one we could afford to lose.

 

[Bobvin]

I can name one we could afford to lose.

There is a an “ignore” function or some such thing… you can just “tune out” someone who troubles you.

 

[Amir]

David @ddk is one of few audiophiles that I trust his audio thinking.

I think david and all of us love high-end audio and audio business has no relation to this passion.

When I read David’s post I really enjoy and I do not care he is in audio business or not.

 

[Argonaut]

I have just this moment reached out for my handkerchief, in order to dab a crocodile tear or two from my eye .

 

[Salectric]

There is a an “ignore” function or some such thing… you can just “tune out” someone who troubles you.

I just exercised the Ignore function for the first time regarding a certain member who will go unnamed whose posts are of no value and are clearly intended to annoy. I feel better already.

 

[Bobvin]

I just exercised the Ignore function for the first time regarding a certain member who will go unnamed whose posts are of no value and are clearly intended to annoy. I feel better already.

Damn, I hope it wasn’t me (but if it was, i suppose you wouldn’t see this!)