David Karmeli’s Bionor/Lamm/AS-2000 Audio System

[Salectric]

Damn, I hope it wasn’t me (but if it was, i suppose you wouldn’t see this!)

Not a chance.

 

[bonzo75]

you can just “tune out” someone who troubles you.

they are the most fun. Every superhero needs a villain.

 

[Bobvin]

they are the most fun. Every superhero needs a villain.

Why I don’t have you on ignore Ked!

 

[hvbias]

Here is another video of Peggy Lee's Fever on ddk's Bionor system. These big paper woofers really do a great job of presenting bass.

What stands out to me in this video (and others on Youtube), just like the Klangfilm Eurodyne I heard at a Lenco Heaven member's system is the cupped hands effect being quite obvious to me. Every recording having a "presence" like resonance or reverb added to it as another way of saying cupped hands effect. The owner did not notice it on all the recordings we played. What I did like about the system was its coherence, better than any GOTO system I heard or Cessaro or Avant-garde.

Yet for me the most non-horn/speakers disappear horn speakers I have heard was a custom constant directivity horn from roughly 450-500 Hz on up. Not even using an expensive compression driver. If there was a black acoustically transparent curtain in front of me I never would have guessed I was listening to horn speakers. Yet the dynamic range capability was there. I am still chasing that high of trying to get Quad ESL57 (the most natural speakers I've heard) like sound except can play louder and with more dynamics and that system did it.

Context for my music tastes - 85% classical, 10% jazz, remainder all others. Probably been to 100+ chamber, solo keyboard, orchestral concerts around the world. Consistently the best experience at the Budapest Festival Orchestra or Malaysian Philharmonic Orchestra. BSO are my hometown band, but not crazy about Nelsons.

 

[MarcelNL]

I am still chasing that high of trying to get Quad ESL57 like sound except can play louder and with more dynamics and that system did it.

aren't we all ;-)

You can use 4 Quad 57's per channel

 

[DasguteOhr]

aren't we all ;-)

You can use 4 Quad 57's per channel

Mega QUAD Paket Quad II & Quad 22 & 2x ESL57 & Decca Bändchen usw

Das ultimative QUAD Paket für HiFi Enthusiasten Bestehend aus: 2x Quad ESL-57 Elektrostaten...,Mega QUAD Paket Quad II & Quad 22 & 2x ESL57 & Decca Bändchen usw in Berlin - Steglitz

www.kleinanzeigen.de

Not so expensive how some people think

 

[Lagonda]

Mega QUAD Paket Quad II & Quad 22 & 2x ESL57 & Decca Bändchen usw

Das ultimative QUAD Paket für HiFi Enthusiasten Bestehend aus: 2x Quad ESL-57 Elektrostaten...,Mega QUAD Paket Quad II & Quad 22 & 2x ESL57 & Decca Bändchen usw in Berlin - Steglitz

www.kleinanzeigen.de

Not so expensive how some people think

Is there a zero missing in that price ?

 

[Maril555]

There is a an “ignore” function or some such thing… you can just “tune out” someone who troubles you.

I wish that principle had been applied to the members we lost. "Cancel culture" anyone???

 

[hvbias]

aren't we all ;-)

You can use 4 Quad 57's per channel

I don't think any number of Quads will be able to play orchestral music convincingly? (question mark since I can't say since I've never heard anything other than a single pair). Or even solo keyboard music experienced from the first ten rows. One of my favorite solo keyboard concerts was hearing a recital of Schumann, Rachmaninoff, Schubert's song transcriptions by Liszt, and the most beautiful Aria from GV.

From the 3rd row the power of a concert grand is simply remarkable. I don't have the vocabulary to describe those sort of religious experiences when sound and performance match up. I don't think that too would be capable on any number of Quads, the dynamic range is too great.

And what about comb filtering and frequency cancellations when you stack panels like that?

(any solo keyboard lovers, if you have a chance to see Sergei Babayan, do not miss it! For me one of the greatest current recording/performing pianists)

 

[hvbias]

I do have to say compared to the Western Electric systems I have heard, the cupped hands effect is not as great on the Bionor YT videos or the Eurodyne I heard in person but still far from what I would call natural. Those WE systems always sound grossly colored with the sheer amount of resonance/halo they inject into every single recording. I can't imagine using them for anything other than recordings that sound like they were recorded in a padded room, i.e. maybe those old Toscanini NBC recordings. Most classical recordings have plenty of ambient cues in them making these speakers sound quite distracting.

 

[PeterA]

What stands out to me in this video (and others on Youtube), just like the Klangfilm Eurodyne I heard at a Lenco Heaven member's system is the cupped hands effect being quite obvious to me. Every recording having a "presence" like resonance or reverb added to it as another way of saying cupped hands effect. The owner did not notice it on all the recordings we played. What I did like about the system was its coherence, better than any GOTO system I heard or Cessaro or Avant-garde.

That is quite an interesting observation about David's system via the video given what Ron Resnick who visited and actually heard the system had to say in his opening post of this thread:

12) On jazz music and on classical symphony orchestra music David’s system affords me the greatest suspension of disbelief, the closest to what I hear at Walt Disney Concert Hall, that I have ever heard.

 

[Audiohertz2]

aren't we all ;-)

You can use 4 Quad 57's per channel

Have heard those many times , Find stacked pr superior thou less powerful ..

 

[cjfrbw]

Using planars, one tends to become over sensitized to the reverberations of the boxes and horns. I could even hear it on the big Wilsons as an extraneous contribution when first hearing them.

After a bit of accommodation from the hearing apparatus, this tends to melt into the Haas effect as ambiance and isn't so troublesome. I imagine the owners have this accommodation 'spring loaded' because of habitual repetition.

Some Japanese speakers specifically tune the box so that this speaker reverb is natural and contributes to the sound. Manufacturers who like to conquer nature go for the most rigid and least apparent reverb in box speakers, thus the heavily braced box speakers.

With horns, the reverb is part of the strategy, but it does tend to 'disappear' after listening to them for a while.

 

[Audiohertz2]

There’s a natural decay and resonance produced by instruments completely lost on all panels , especially ESL’s , quads in particular. This leads to the very misplaced statement , known as the fast bass concept ( where instruments decay too fast ) panelphiles like to splurge around , what it is really, is another form of distortion, iso-diametric to added box resonance..


Regards

 

[Argonaut]

That is quite an interesting observation about David's system via the video given what Ron Resnick who visited and actually heard the system had to say in his opening post of this thread:

Perhaps Ron was merely being ”Intellectually Dishonest” as you choose to put it Viz :

Ron Resnick Launches Audio Cafe LLC, a New Clarisys Audio Dealer

That makes no sense to me. Why not let people play their favorite songs? The whole reason I got the streamer + DAC in the first place was to be able to hand an iPad to visitors and say "Have a good time!" The problem is if you have to sit through demo after demo of sub par sound, you will go...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[tima]

What stands out to me in this video (and others on Youtube), just like the Klangfilm Eurodyne I heard at a Lenco Heaven member's system is the cupped hands effect being quite obvious to me. Every recording having a "presence" like resonance or reverb added to it as another way of saying cupped hands effect. The owner did not notice it on all the recordings we played. What I did like about the system was its coherence, better than any GOTO system I heard or Cessaro or Avant-garde.

Have you heard that performance without the post recording reverb?

 

[tima]

Some Japanese speakers specifically tune the box so that this speaker reverb is natural and contributes to the sound.

Omg, what happened to the parrot?

 

[cjfrbw]

Omg, what happened to the parrot?

The parrot has whistled into the great beyond. He was an old bird when we got him. Still, I was wondering if he would outlive us. Our old, wild gray parrot, age unkown, is still with us 40 years later. She is blind in one eye and arthritic, but still ticking, still wild with attitude.

I figured I would replace the icon with the ineluctable mystery of the hung cathode, directly heated globe triode . The tube is older than me, which is pretty effing old, and nobody in any audio agitated grandiosity of affect or presumption has ever been able to explain any why as to the wondrous attributes of its sound (except to experience it).

I think it is good to keep something a bit mysterious, and a bit gifted for no explicable reason.

 

[tima]

The parrot has whistled into the great beyond.

He was iconic.
Farewell green bird.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Is there a zero missing in that price ?

No...sorry only one pair with pre/ amps +tuner. But another pair quad esl 57 cost 1.6k€ used.