Degritter ultrasonic record cleaner

Hi y’all, just a few words on what I think is a worthy alternative to the Audio Desk Systeme and KLAudio ultrasonic cleaners.

http://degritter.com/media-kit/

I’ve been a beta tester on the Degritter for the last few weeks, and am happy to offer my opinions and answer any qs for those interested.

I believe official launch is in early May, and at this stage after a couple of quibbles in day to day use, I’m planning to keep my unit, it’s been a pretty good success, and invaluable addition to day to day life as a vinyl addict.

 

OK then, if you say so...

 

Not sure how that 120hz frequency if it's actually correct will perform in 120v/60hz, things change when you go from 50hz to 60hz.

david

Probably Mark wanted to address the ultrasonic frequency of operation that should be on the tens of kHz, not Hz. As in all vinyl matters, opinions will diverge - each brand will have its preferred value and tell other frequencies do not clean well or damage records!

We have at less four variables - added cleaner or pure water, the ultrasonic frequency of operation, the power and the cleaning time - enough to keep the thread going on for long!

 

Francisco, 120kHz indeed, my bad LOL.

 

Probably Mark wanted to address the ultrasonic frequency of operation that should be on the tens of kHz, not Hz. As in all vinyl matters, opinions will diverge - each brand will have its preferred value and tell other frequencies do not clean well or damage records!

We have at less four variables - added cleaner or pure water, the ultrasonic frequency of operation, the power and the cleaning time - enough to keep the thread going on for long!

True that !
Ideally someone will make one with user adjustable parameters down the line.
david

 

True that !
Ideally someone will make one with user adjustable parameters down the line.
david

Although it is an old article, it says a lot about the issues with ultrasonic cleaning. https://www.cemag.us/article/2003/10/development-ultrasonic-cleaning

Enough to keep us asking - what will happen if my ultrasonic cleaner is not working properly?

 

Chuck your beloved, but damaged, vinyl into a skip, and go streaming?

Or maybe make sure you only clean one lp at a time, and make sure it sounds fine ahead of cleaning the next?

 

Marc, if you put this on a stacore and connect it to entreq, it will be a complete SOM cleaning solution

 

Although it is an old article, it says a lot about the issues with ultrasonic cleaning. https://www.cemag.us/article/2003/10/development-ultrasonic-cleaning

Enough to keep us asking - what will happen if my ultrasonic cleaner is not working properly?

I remember having major problems with commercial ultrasonic machines cleaning jewelry in the factory, specially finished goods. Some shook the stones out of their settings or even crackd softer than diamond color stones, the less aggressive models or settings simply didn’t do the job right and couldn’t remove any of the polishing rouge. In the end we brought in a specialist firm to design custom units for us and figure out the right combination of power, temperature, time and cleaning media for various the products, there’s nothing plug and play about ultrasonics and delicate media.

david

 

A Google search of "KLAUDIO damaging records" returns zero results, I went through 10 pages. I also searched Audiogon and Audio Shark forums and found only one comment about the possibility of ultrasonic cleaners damaging records.

And big surprise here.....the person that posted that comment was a dealer that sold the non-ultrasonic Clear Audio machine.

 

Just had a response from Taniel.

First he’s so pleased there’s a bit of buzz on the thread.

Not sure what he’d think about the debate on potential damage, but I do know he and the team made a conscious decision to go for the less intensive 120kHz frequency.

I’ll ask him to comment on this, he won’t criticise other machines but will explain why they made this design choice in terms of what the Degritter can offer.

Re the filter:

No brushes.
Filter is a washable steel mesh/open cell material (this material provided by Degritter, but can be replaced by stock off the shelf material in future).

Cleaning fluid is an anionic surfactant produced locally in Estonia for Degritter.

 

A Google search of "KLAUDIO damaging records" returns zero results, I went through 10 pages. I also searched Audiogon and Audio Shark forums and found only one comment about the possibility of ultrasonic cleaners damaging records.

And big surprise here.....the person that posted that comment was a dealer that sold the non-ultrasonic Clear Audio machine.

I often say that if you do not find something in google usually it means you do not have used the proper keywords - I was able to find some other negative comments using other search words. I will not refer to them as they are anonymous and not meaningful to this thread - but as expected no product has 100% pleased people.

It is still too early to know about any long term negative effects of ultrasonic LP cleaning. Although not new, ultrasonic cleaning is an evolving subject, and new research is is currently being published, also in the field of polymer cleaning. I found a few interesting papers on the subject, unfortunately they were paid articles and my interest is very limited.

We must hope that the machine developers did their home work, and tested their machines extensively. A quick search shows that the possible problems are not in the ultrasonic process, but on how it is carried. As most of the time, the question is in the "why's" and manufacturers will not tell you all relevant information.

Just to end, what separates me from a KLAudio machine is the price, not the performance. IMHO, it is too expensive in Europe - almost x3 more expensive than the AutoDesk Pro. Also service iof AutoDesk is much faster and cheaper for EC customers.

 

I'm not even sold on the benefits of ultrasonic vs. traditional wet vacuum cleaning. Has anyone actually done an 'AB' on this subject?
If there is a minimal chance that the ultrasonic cleaning method could in any way damage the vinyl, I would have absolutely no interest in it.

 

I haven't done A/B necessarily, but I used to have a Clearaudio, that uses the traditional method. When I got my first Audio Desk, it was a revelation.
With the Clearaudio, as soon as I played a record, the stylus would pick up all sorts of crap, that the traditional method would leave around the grooves. With the Audio Desk, all that gunk gets removed for good, without forcing the stylus to pick that up.
And, as I said before, there's 0 static with the Audio Desk, while all the friction and vacuuming of the traditional method would leave the recently cleaned record loaded with static.
Just for reference, a friend with a Keith Monks bought my Audio Desk, and he much prefers it to the KM as well.

 

I'm not even sold on the benefits of ultrasonic vs. traditional wet vacuum cleaning. Has anyone actually done an 'AB' on this subject?
If there is a minimal chance that the ultrasonic cleaning method could in any way damage the vinyl, I would have absolutely no interest in it.

IME quality machines of either type do an equally good job of cleaning the records but you can’t beat something like an Audio Desk for convenience. All the machines I tried have their own quirks and limitations, haven’t found the perfect cleaning marvel yet but some that get the job done right enough.

david

 

IME quality machines of either type do an equally good job of cleaning the records but you can’t beat something like an Audio Desk for convenience. All the machines I tried have their own quirks and limitations, haven’t found the perfect cleaning marvel yet but some that get the job done right enough.

david

That would be my thinking as well. If one is fastidious enough about using a traditional vacuum cleaning machine and is also utilizing the correct fluids etc., I would expect a very similar result. Personally, I do not get the same result as Alex described above when I have finished cleaning my LP. There is no additional static and certainly the stylus is not picking up all sorts of crap. Perhaps I have a different cleaning regimen that insures this. One that is more time consuming and less convenient than the quick ultrasonic method.

 

Does any one know the nominal frequency of operation and number of transducers of the AudioDesk and the KLAudio? Do they operate at fixed frequency or sweep mode?

An interesting link with plenty of information, including links to references: http://www.high-endaudio.com/Ultrasonic.html

 

Audio Desk does vary frequency during the cycle, and they don't publish what those frequencies are. They claim that's their "secret sauce".

 

That’s “good” to (not) know.
I find Degritter’s candour here, re 120kHz, refreshing in comparison.

 

Well, for all the scare that was put on the KL Audio, it has 200W ultrasonic "power", versus 340W for the Degritter.

By KL Audio's own admission, 200W is enough to damage vinyl, but they claim their machine won't. Seems they also have their own "secret sauce".

https://klaudio.com/frequently-asked-questions

I wonder what steps the Degritter guys took, in order to blast 340W onto the vinyl, and not damage it...

 

Audio Desk does vary frequency during the cycle, and they don't publish what those frequencies are. They claim that's their "secret sauce".

This is a ridiculous claim - anyone having access to a machine can measure it in five minutes! I accept to be a "magic believer" in many aspects related to the high-end, but not in LP cleaning machines!