Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

[amirm]

Amir, Curious that you have chosen to comment on the delivery and conduct of the messenger whilst ignoring the content of the message entirely.

No I have not. I already chastised Keith. How many times do I need to say that? That is done and now I am trying to figure out why others who act against the mission of this forum are saying they are on the right.

If we are to understand that PA has been officially advised as to his conduct in this regard, then surely you must have acquiesced as to such.

You are not to "understand." I said it in black and white that Keith should not tease you all. You all need to act professionally just as you said, but refusing to follow your own advice.

 

[amirm]

Also, placebo is possible if one auditions something once or twice. Not when someone auditions it twenty times in different scenarios.

This is just not true. On AVS Forum a blind experiment was created. One of the participants was a person who mixed movie soundtracks for a living. In other words he had heard it all. I took the test, found two of the files to be identical. Turned out the person who created the test made a mistake and had duplicated one of the files. The film mixer person? He thought those two identical fines sounded different. I literally had to show a binary comparison indicating they were identical and then he and everyone else who had voted them different backed off. So experience does not remove effects of faulty evaluation.

What fixes it is lack of knowledge of anything but what the sound is. Once you violate that, no amount of justification brings valid results. I have been victim of that in countless occasions. After you get embarrased time and time again, you have to concede that there is only one answer to such evaluations and is when the only thing that one experiences is the sound.

Let your ears be the judge and nothing else.

 

[spazmatron]

I am always optimistic when trying new things.... Pain and Disappointment are my friends

 

[bonzo75]

This is just not true. On AVS Forum a blind experiment was created. One of the participants was a person who mixed movie soundtracks for a living. In other words he had heard it all. I took the test, found two of the files to be identical. Turned out the person who created the test made a mistake and had duplicated one of the files. The film mixer person? He thought those two identical fines sounded different. I literally had to show a binary comparison indicating they were identical and then he and everyone else who had voted them different backed off. So experience does not remove effects of faulty evaluation.

What fixes it is lack of knowledge of anything but what the sound is. Once you violate that, no amount of justification brings valid results. I have been victim of that in countless occasions. After you get embarrased time and time again, you have to concede that there is only one answer to such evaluations and is when the only thing that one experiences is the sound.

Let your ears be the judge and nothing else.

Had he heard the files a number of times over years in different systems?

 

[spazmatron]

This is just not true. On AVS Forum a blind experiment was created. One of the participants was a person who mixed movie soundtracks for a living. In other words he had heard it all. I took the test, found two of the files to be identical. Turned out the person who created the test made a mistake and had duplicated one of the files. The film mixer person? He thought those two identical fines sounded different. I literally had to show a binary comparison indicating they were identical and then he and everyone else who had voted them different backed off. So experience does not remove effects of faulty evaluation.

What fixes it is lack of knowledge of anything but what the sound is. Once you violate that, no amount of justification brings valid results. I have been victim of that in countless occasions. After you get embarrased time and time again, you have to concede that there is only one answer to such evaluations and is when the only thing that one experiences is the sound.

Let your ears be the judge and nothing else.

This is in fact... Fact! You can be fooled into creating false memories in a similar fashion. Once my brother in law convinced me I borrowed a game from him years ago, I ended up remembering doing it only for it to later be proved this was not the case. That antidotal but if you look into how the brain works you will find its a universal affliction.

Anyone who believes thier conscious interpretation of thier sub conscious actively is full proof is a danger to mankind and fundamentally delusional.

 

[amirm]

Had he heard the files a number of times over years in different systems?

Everyone downloaded the files and listened to them as many times as they wanted before voting. The test went for a days. So I assume he evaluated them however he wanted on as many systems as he wanted before voting.

I tested them on my reference audio workstation for an hour or so before voting. Funny thing is, I was told my vote was wrong because the person who created the test did not know he had made a mistake! Was a pain to sit there for days until he tallied the results and posted it all in public including who voted which way!

 

[Billy Shears]

You could have a thousand people saying their car runs faster when they wash it. It doesn't matter. The truth in that is measuring that it did or did not. Chefs make their food plates attractive. Many people as a result think the food tastes better while we know that can't possibly be true. Our mouth has no eye. The brain does of course.

By the way, it is not a matter of being skeptical. It is a matter of analyzing what is there and realizing it doesn't do anything. I am not a fan of skeptics. I am a fan of calming looking at something, analyzing it and having that be the reference point of view as opposed to what masses may be saying.

To that end, those of you who have the unit try to imagine that it has made the sound worse. Think hard to see if the improvements you thought were there, were not. Do this as honest as you can be with yourself. Then see if the improvements are resilient.

Consider that if a simple device like this made a difference, real circuit changes in our electronics would have effects that would be so large as to make our measurements blow off the scale!

These are the types of logical analysis that you want to do rather than going by how many people thought it made a difference.

The fascinating thing is that you are alleging that anyone who tries this unit and hears a difference, is positively biased and imagining it. But by looking at this unit, making up your mind as to what it does and doesn't do (within the confindes of your knwledge which can't be all encompassing) you are making it impossible for yourself to have any experience that contradicts your opinion.
Instead of having a experience and letting that inform your opinion aswell as what you know.
PS: If it does turn out that your knowledge includes, understanding the underlining cause of every single physical phenomenon then you have my deepest respect indeed.....

 

[spazmatron]

The key with all this is simple...,

If a device brings you subjective improvements great, if you believe it meets your sense of value even greater, if you can afford it buy it be happy.

Just don't get too caught up in this being a fact, being a truth or a basics for factual discussion.

 

[amirm]

The fascinating thing is that you are alleging that anyone who tries this unit and hears a difference, is positively biased and imagining it.

Anyone? No. I am not there to vouch for that. Maybe they changed the volume, or something else and did hear a difference.

I am here to say if we change one loudspeaker for another, we can all be sure that differences reported are valid. At the other extreme are devices like this. These are the realities of the situation. I didn't make them that way. I am reporting them as such .

But by looking at this unit, making up your mind as to what it does and doesn't do (within the confindes of your knwledge which can't be all encompassing) you are making it impossible for yourself to have any experience that contradicts your opinion.

I haven't made up my mind. I am expressing what I can tell from analyzing it; you all are telling what you can tell from hearing it. Two different approaches bringing data to the table.

My question for you is this: if I brought my water hose inside and hooked it up to my system and it sounded better to me, what then?

Instead of having a experience and letting that inform your opinion aswell as what you know.
PS: If it does turn out that your knowledge includes, understanding the underlining cause of every single physical phenomenon then you have my deepest respect indeed.....

My doctor can examine me and tell me I have an infection in my throat without experiencing it himself. He could be wrong but years of experience says he is more right than I would be examining a patient. Same here. I am bringing knowledge of electronics and can line up as many designers as you like to vouch for the same. Indeed for every person that says this sound better, I can get you two engineers who would say that is not possible. I don't understand any conclusion that ignores what I just said.

 

[amirm]

Let me give a parallel to this. We had this thread once where Greg, MikeL and others were defending de-magnetizing of LPs making them sound better. We argued for a while. Then Gary volunteered to capture a virgin LP versus one de-magnetized. He uploaded the files and amazing at it seems, there were clear audible differences! These easily showed up in waveform analysis. I fell of my chair after hearing and seeing that. The data was the data and it had to be accepted.

The story did not end there though. I hypothesized that maybe just playing an LP twice without de-mag would have the same effect. And you guessed it, I was right! The king of audio is always right.

So all the people who reported a difference before and after de-mag were right. They did hear a difference. The skeptics were wrong that this was an impossibility. With both sides working, we created new science. That we were hearing generational differences. And one that shows a virgin LP sounds worse than the second play! The LP for the lack of a better word, needed break in!!! The de-mag device lost in having any value there.

Here is the thread: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?2701-Reviewing-the-Furutec-Demag

 

[Barry2013]

Even if those said engineers had not heard it?

 

[amirm]

Even if those said engineers had not heard it?

Of course. That was the point of my post. Otherwise if we go by what you said, the people who say sound better need to become electrical engineers before their opinion is valid .

 

[rockitman]

Just to be clear I don't sell any foo, or snake oil products, I just don't like to see folk getting ripped off.
Keith.

so your obsessive negative critique of everything Entreq based on zero actual listening experience is all about social responsibility ? You are trying to save us from ourselves ? Quite admirable. What a clown.

 

[amirm]

so your obsessive negative critique of everything Entreq based on zero actual listening experience is all about social responsibility ? You are trying to save us from ourselves ? Quite admirable. What a clown.

Why was the last sentence necessary?

 

[spazmatron]

so your obsessive negative critique of everything Entreq based on zero actual listening experience is all about social responsibility ? You are trying to save us from ourselves ? Quite admirable. What a clown.

Don't get excited, Keith no longer takes bookings as his alter ego ' kernel happy ' the clown. too busy being saintly. Though he may make a exception for you if you ask nicely!

I am available though

 

[amirm]

I am available though

Are you good looking?

 

[RayDunzl]

Why was the last sentence necessary?

That made me think about persons in prison, which may have multiple sentences applied. I didn't find what I was looking for, but I did find this.

The record seems to be for a Spanish mailman who failed to deliver 42,000 letter and got 384,912 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_prison_sentences

 

[spazmatron]

Are you good looking?

Well my lord, attractive enough to put your legacy at risk! Best we don't meet until you produce a hier! For once you lay eyes on me your queen will appear most inadequate.

 

[Purite Audio]

I may be a clown but I haven't spent my hard earned on kitty litter, well I may have once when we owned a cat.
Keith.

 

[Barry2013]

Of course. That was the point of my post. Otherwise if we go by what you said, the people who say sound better need to become electrical engineers before their opinion is valid .

Yes and that is precisely the problem.
It assumes they cannot possibly be wrong, they know everything there is to know, and that it is impossible for Entreq/Tripoint to have come up with something that does work because they have not found it and cannot understand it.
They therefore dismiss widespread global evidence to the contrary from experienced audiophiles and seek to put it down to any manner of other explanations.
I referred in an earlier post to how we rely on our ears to routinely make judgements on i/cs, speaker cables and mains cables without any generally accepted and correlated measurements to explain why they sound different. That is accepted and we all do it and that is how cables are reviewed.
Why should Entreq/Tripoint be judged differently?