Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

[amirm]

It just strikes me as more ducking and diving and resistance to transparency so no it does not settle the point for me

Why? He clearly said a more expensive system would be more revealing and I said my system was expensive. He has put no other criteria that I can say I have or have not satisfied. Do you want to list that? That is, the qualification said system needs to have for the difference with and without Entreq to be audible?

 

[amirm]

On this topic your every contribution is lowering my view of your credibility.
Sorry but that's my reaction.

Oh that is a common occurrence. Folks at first blush fall for my great looks and charm and give me undue high credibility. Then the reality sets in that I am only slightly smarter than the horse in Spaz' avatar and folks wonder where they want wrong. Now you know where.

 

[BE718]

I find it interesting that a post just made on the Intona thread showing it's measured improvement is accepted without question & yet it shows an abysmal measured noise floor for the device pre-Intona - it has -60dB noise floor @ LF & -70dB @ HF (when the FFT graph is adjusted for FFT gain)

This is a great example of a "broken" system that needs fixing instead of an add-on box.
Does this mantra not apply to the Intona then?

Here's the "measurements are showing a typical ground loop issue" as Intona state. Is what's being said here is that a "typical ground loop" requires an add-on box?
Are we saying an add-on box is OK if it' called Intona but not if it's called Entreq?
Some consistency would be welcome
View attachment 25848

Sorry JK, but you displayed a bit of a misunderstanding here.

You can't fix that problem with grounding because both devices are on the same PC. Loop.

same could happen in replay only if your PC has connection to mains earth and so does your non galvanically isolated DAC or amp which it is plugged into

You would need a seperate PC, which is what I do for my measurements when not using the Intona

 

[jkeny]

Sorry JK, but you displayed a bit of a misunderstanding here.

You can't fix that problem with grounding because both devices are on the same PC. Loop.

same could happen in replay only if your PC has connection to mains earth and so does your non galvanically isolated DAC or amp which it is plugged into

You would need a seperate PC, which is what I do for my measurements when not using the Intona

It's exactly what I said "a highly "broken" system that could be fixed with "proper grounding" rather than trying to fix it with an add-on box?

 

[Don Hills]

... there has been some speculation that the Entreq equipment may rely to some extent on music vibrations occurring within the room ...

I have seen several people claim that the filling in the box has piezo-electric properties. Presumably the "noise" voltages are transformed to physical deformation (movement) of the filling, which in turn is converted to heat by friction between the particles. If we accept this, then the reverse can also happen, vibration of the box will generate voltages within the filling which may appear on the terminals.

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

I applaud your determination to trial the Entreq gear but I also believe the challenge for you will now be to do it in a way that exemplifies fairness given the clear pre test biases that you have against the product prior to any practical assessment.

So when asked how you were going to plan the test of Entreq's gear your unfortunate response was that you were setting it all up on a poo stained pair of underpants, regrettably not so much the high road as the bottom road (and before one of the lackeys launches in again and misses with another cheap ad hominem salvo challenging my obviously complete lack of any sense of humour) I must admit that more importantly I don't think this is actually quite as funny as it is inappropriate.

I don't know what test equipment Amir owns, but when it comes to formal and accurate measurement, the only gear I trust is a Rohde & Schwarz UPV audio analyser.

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/upv-productstartpage_63493-7558.html

And the only reviewers I would trust to do justice (whatever that may end up being) to Entreq products - subjectively and objectively - are professional audio journalists - specifically Jon Miles, Noel Keywood and Rafael Todes (the latter being a professional violinist as well - arguably an ideal candidate for subjectively reviewing the products given that in my own experience reproduced bowed instrument sound benefits the most from the use of the products. Or perhaps more succinctly, the beneficial effects are more easily heard when listening to entire sections of stringed instruments as per my commentary accompanying my music files).

 

[Speedskater]

I have seen several people claim that the filling in the box has piezo-electric properties. Presumably the "noise" voltages are transformed to physical deformation (movement) of the filling, which in turn is converted to heat by friction between the particles. If we accept this, then the reverse can also happen, vibration of the box will generate voltages within the filling which may appear on the terminals.

If it does, I would think that the noise would need to be RF, that is well into the AM broadcast band and probably higher before the piezo effect starts to operate. Even the cheapest power conditioners have filters that can do a much better filtering job at those frequencies. It's at much lower frequencies that both linear and SMPS generate their noise.

But in any case, you don't want a low pass filter on the conductor to the grounding point. Good engineering practice suggests using short lengths of flat braid or copper strap, because a round wire has to much self inductance.

 

[BE718]

N

 

[BE718]

It's exactly what I said "a highly "broken" system that could be fixed with "proper grounding" rather than trying to fix it with an add-on box?

No it isn't. I'll refer you to my response in the Intona thread, no point in discussing it in two places

 

[BE718]

I don't know what test equipment Amir owns, but when it comes to formal and accurate measurement, the only gear I trust is a Rohde & Schwarz UPV audio analyser.

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/upv-productstartpage_63493-7558.html

And the only reviewers I would trust to do justice (whatever that may end up being) to Entreq products - subjectively and objectively - are professional audio journalists - specifically Jon Miles, Noel Keywood and Rafael Todes (the latter being a professional violinist as well - arguably an ideal candidate for subjectively reviewing the products given that in my own experience reproduced bowed instrument sound benefits the most from the use of the products. Or perhaps more succinctly, the beneficial effects are more easily heard when listening to entire sections of stringed instruments as per my commentary accompanying my music files).

Fiddle, can I ask on what basis you state that R&S test and measurement kit is the only one you would trust? I work in test and measurement and I see no basis for that conclusion.

I also see no basis for only trusting the mentioned audio journalists.

 

[amirm]

I don't know what test equipment Amir owns, but when it comes to formal and accurate measurement, the only gear I trust is a Rohde & Schwarz UPV audio analyser.

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/upv-productstartpage_63493-7558.html

R&S makes very high-end and superbly build instruments. But that audio analyzer is not common at all. The inclusion of that display in it makes it very expensive with no value for audio measurements because we can use a PC to capture that data. My analyzer is Audio Precision which is the de-facto device and by far #1 share in the market for audio analysis.

Or perhaps more succinctly, the beneficial effects are more easily heard when listening to entire sections of stringed instruments as per my commentary accompanying my music files).

What is the theory behind hearing it there the most?

 

[amirm]

With that out of the way, there are some things people should be aware of when I made my tests.

1. They were always made between 2.00 am and 3.00 am in the morning.

2. Anything within (or outside) of the house requiring the use of electricity was turned off during all tests (i.e. Entreq with and Entreq without), except for my refrigerator (it is summer here) and the doorbell and workstation obviously. Everything else was completely switched off at the wall sockets.

2. The sound pressure levels in the room itself were only as contributed by the workstation, which in the purposely steady state I was running it in (in terms of purposely maintaining constant fan speeds during all tests), it was around 33 dBA. Afterall, when you are measuring at such low noise levels relative to what the equipment is capable of, you need to keep all test parameters perfectly consistent. I had a fan monitoring program running and made certain fans were not speeding up or slowing down across the tests as that may have influenced the noise floor, even despite SoTM filters being fitted to all of them.

3. There was never any audible music playing during any phase of any test - not even through headphones, let alone speakers. It is just the quiet sound of the fans in the workstation within the room and nothing more.

4. I only listen through headphones and I experience the same types of benefits with Entreq equipment that people do who use speaker systems.

I am only mentioning this because there has been some speculation that the Entreq equipment may rely to some extent on music vibrations occurring within the room and I honestly don't know anymore who is being serious here and who is just continuing on with the "let's bury Entreq" crusade. So I am playing it safe. If I did not see the joke then I am sorry I don't share the same highly developed, sophisticated sense of humour that you guys do.

I have not yet formulated a plan for how to test the unit. What I can say is that I would not have thought of half of the steps you took to make your measurements correct! You sure you are a subjectivists and not a measurement type guy???

 

[Frank750]

I have not yet formulated a plan for how to test the unit. What I can say is that I would not have thought of half of the steps you took to make your measurements correct! You sure you are a subjectivists and not a measurement type guy???

Why not do something revolutionary, put it in your system and listen to it. What do measurements matter if it doesn't make the music sound better?

 

[P-O]

I am not in the medical field. Did a farmer develop the breakthrough you mention?

Hello Amirm.
Here we go again.
You dont have to thank me for anything.
But I missed this comment about before.
Funny that you ask about medical.
In fact I two times during the past 20 years have been engaged in the medical sector by Scandinavian companies.
We worked with solutions for handle/attend animals and people who get contagious virus.
As far I know the development we made is still in use. And at that moment we find the solution it was a kind of breaktrough.
Best
PO

 

[treitz3]

Why not do something revolutionary, put it in your system and listen to it. What do measurements matter if it doesn't make the music sound better?

Here, here!!! ^^^what he said^^^

Or are confrontations the preferred method of debate without ever listening to said device?

Tom

 

[rockitman]

Why not do something revolutionary, put it in your system and listen to it. What do measurements matter if it doesn't make the music sound better?

That's too easy. We still don't know what Amir's system is comprised of and whether his components are up to the task noise floor wise to allow the benefits of Entreq to be heard. It is possible that a consumer grade HT type receiver could benefit by cleaning up the signal ground. Personally on this measurement thing, I think the voltages are too small for hobbyist electrical testers to draw any conclusive and meaningful results. Ears are best. If you can't hear a benefit, don't buy it and move on.

 

[spazmatron]

you can trust your ears for sure.... just not the brain they are wired to hence the measurements. if you don't know this to be true you are a step closer to being bonkers but bonkers can be fun so who cares

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Why not do something revolutionary, put it in your system and listen to it. What do measurements matter if it doesn't make the music sound better?

Here, here!!! ^^^what he said^^^

Or are confrontations the preferred method of debate without ever listening to said device?

Tom

there are no rules for what each of us happen to enjoy doing. there is no right or wrong to it.

however; observers do note where each of our personal focus seems to be. clearly what get's Amir excited is different than some of the rest of us. it speaks to why there is such a disconnect going on.

 

[treitz3]

you can trust your ears for sure....<snip>

Nothing more needed to be spoken, truth be told. One either trusts their ears or they don't. Measurements aren't wired to your ears either.

Tom

 

[Purite Audio]

Nothing more needed to be spoken, truth be told. One either trusts their ears or they don't. Measurements aren't wired to your ears either.

Tom

Unfortunately one cannot trust one's ears , or rather as Spaz said one's brain.
If you really want to compare unbiased then remove the visual stimulus .
Keith