Entreq Tellus grounding

Fantastic news Barry...congrats!!! Yes, there is this tipping point where all the improvements start building up so much, that when you play a CD you have not played in a few months...you realize how far your system has come. I particularly like playing certain CDs where there is choral music, or deep house electronic...because one tends to have difficult to understand sung words, and the other tends to have hidden layers of rhythms/beats...and when i revisit them after several changes...it is nice to hear the tangible improvements.

Congrats again.
 
Thanks very much Lloyd.
Yes it really was the tipping point. The words are now clear and intelligible, On Melody Gardot's SACD The Absence I found I could identify the words with no difficulty where previously some were a real struggle. A very good test to apply quite apart from the great improvements in all the other aspects of musical reproduction.
There is a lot of really good equipment out there but the real challenge is to find that crucial synergy which brings out the best in all the constituent pieces of the system. It takes time and effort but it's a lovely feeling when you get there!
 
+1.
For me, it's really all coming together w/the S. Cleanus/Olympus Mini trial, and initial foray into Shun Mooks/poss Spiers Robertson air table for my tt. I'm pretty much likely to end my Entreq journey w/S. Tellus/S. Cleanus/Olympus Mini and 9 Apollos. This is giving me high end energy and verve to die for, and midrange composure. The Mooks seem to be complementing this w/palpable organic tone and low end articulation. My system hasn't really changed in character but tone is reinforced and is resolving like never before.
 
Barry, I do find it fascinating, and tbh it test's my sanity somewhat :confused:, that isolating PASSIVE devices like Entreq, in your case w/Ultra5s, and in my case w/Shun Mooks, can be so positive. I mean these boxes are inert, full of minerals and plates, tightly packed, w/no delicate electronic components. Just WHAT is going on to result in not subtle changes?
 
Barry, I do find it fascinating, and tbh it test's my sanity somewhat :confused:, that isolating PASSIVE devices like Entreq, in your case w/Ultra5s, and in my case w/Shun Mooks, can be so positive. I mean these boxes are inert, full of minerals and plates, tightly packed, w/no delicate electronic components. Just WHAT is going on to result in not subtle changes?

Thanks Marc.
Yes mechanical isolation of vibrations etc that you cannot feel or sense and in passive components does take some understanding without specialist knowledge. With the right devices I presume it is measurable but I presume it is a constant feature of modern life and clearly it impacts on the quality of audio reproduction. Fraser is very clear about the benefits of isolating the Entreq ground boxes and it does make a difference. The Ultra 5s I have are under the amp and speakers and their improvement over and above that from the Ultra SSs has been very evident. One of my Silver Tellus has Ultra Minis and the other some old RDC cones, but I will in time put Ultra Minis under both Silver Tellus and Atlantis box as they do make a difference.
 
Thanks Marc.
Yes mechanical isolation of vibrations etc that you cannot feel or sense and in passive components does take some understanding without specialist knowledge. With the right devices I presume it is measurable but I presume it is a constant feature of modern life and clearly it impacts on the quality of audio reproduction. Fraser is very clear about the benefits of isolating the Entreq ground boxes and it does make a difference. The Ultra 5s I have are under the amp and speakers and their improvement over and above that from the Ultra SSs has been very evident. One of my Silver Tellus has Ultra Minis and the other some old RDC cones, but I will in time put Ultra Minis under both Silver Tellus and Atlantis box as they do make a difference.

I found that with Entreq boxes as well when i was auditioning them...this was Ultra SS let alone Ultra 5. I use isolation under my Tripoint and mass damping on top...but it takes 20kg to make any appreciable difference on top...any less and i could not tell ANY difference. Interestingly, i discussed with Miguel who fully supported the approach...he felt that anything to help reduce any microvibration on any physical connection to the system should not hurt and might help.
 
Barry, I do find it fascinating, and tbh it test's my sanity somewhat :confused:, that isolating PASSIVE devices like Entreq, in your case w/Ultra5s, and in my case w/Shun Mooks, can be so positive. I mean these boxes are inert, full of minerals and plates, tightly packed, w/no delicate electronic components. Just WHAT is going on to result in not subtle changes?[/QUOTE]

"Micro vibrations - Why do so many people think that microvibration control is a myth? All those tricky footers, and weird cables, and stands. Isn’t it a business founded on trickery and hypnotism? On the selling of snake-oil?

Microvibration control is serious business. After all, your entire hearing is based on it. And after reading this article, your entire thinking about audio will be, too. The logic is right here in front of you. All you have to do is look at the numbers.

And those numbers are, Mr. Wise Guy?

The loudest sound you can withstand before sustaining temporary damage to your ears is about 123 dB SPL. You know, the sound from right behind a jet plane. In order to produce this amount of sound pressure, you may find it surprising to learn that the air molecules themselves get displaced all of 11 microns. That’s right. 10 TIMES LESS than your average human hair is thick.

Fast forward. It is now late at night. All in the house is quiet. You can’t sleep. Far, far away, outside, you can make out the chirping of a lonely cricket. It is very faint, yet you are sure that you hear it distinctly. This sound is caused by a vibration of air molecules which are displaced by only 11 picometers. This is about 1/20th the diameter of an average sized atom.

You can begin to appreciate that the human ear is a remarkably sensitive detector of vibrations. Your bare hearing already functions on a subatomic level of precision.

But what about your equipment? What should it care about microvibrations? It doesn’t have hears, does it? Well, you are wrong. It does have ears, and by far more sensitive ones than even yours.

Metal conducts electricity because it contains countless shared electrons amongst its atoms. Together, the zillions and gazillions of these individual outer shell electronics make up a cloud of negative charge. This is similar to the way in which the zillions and gazillions of individual atoms in the air make up an invisible cloud of something we breath (and sneeze into) which we call air. Air provides a conduit for pressure vibrations to traverse. Likewise, the electron cloud in a metal provides a conduit for charge vibrations to traverse.

Now that you understand that electrons together make up something akin to a malleable gas of charge, you can see how it can be vibrated just like air pressure is vibrated to create a sound wave in air. The air is stuck to the earth via gravity, yet remains a fluid. Electrons are stuck to the metal via subatomic bonds, yet they act like a fluid as well.

So how much does this fluid vibrate in YOUR sound system, and where did Diana Krall’s voice come from in the first place? When the needle vibrates in the record groove, a microvibration of its tip causes a small current to form. How small? About 0.191 nW (nanowatts). A nanowatt is a thousand millionth of a watt. That’s 1/1000000000 of a watt. So 0.191 nW is only about a fifth of a nanowatt.

You can’t be serious! Nobody can ever hear that!

Of course not. That’s why your system first amplifies it. How many times? Well, let’s say your speakers play at a comfortable listening level when they are getting 12 Watts of power. That’s a typical real-world number for most speakers’ sensitivity. So we have to amplify the original signal which was 0.191 nW 63 BILLION times, in order to get 12 Watts of power that we can enjoy.

0.000000000191 x 63,000,000,000 = 12

Let’s say that these 12 watts generate a sound at 80 dB SPL at your listening chair. That’s where you’ve placed your ears last time you checked. When the sound wave of Diana Krall’s 500 Hz note finally hits your eardrum at 80 dB SPL, the actual molecules in the air are vibrating at only 0.15 micrometers maximum displacement. That’s only 0.00015 millimeters.

Next time your wife tells you to turn it down, you are now well-equipped to respond, “but it’s only 0.15 microns displacement, dear!”

That’s for analogue, but this is a Digital World today. With digital, it makes no difference.

Boy are you wrong! In digital, the problem is the placement of all the samples in the time domain (Jitter). People can hear the results of digital signal Jitter amounts of less than 50 pS. That’s picoseconds, which would be 50/100000000000 of a second). The samples are going by so fast, but we have, with redbook CD audio, 44.1 thousand (x2 for stereo) chances of hearing this tiny displacement of time per second, so we do pretty well at it, since they are all more or less imperfect.

Next time you are at a football field, go to one of the goal lines, and stand on it. Look all the way across the field at the other goal line. You are looking at one sample. Yes, the far goal line is the next sample in the audio. Now take but one step towards it. Make it a millimeter step, please. That is the amount of Jitter you can hear in an audio stream! Of course it never occurs only once, but in a statistical way, this small deviation from the perfect goal line is what you are able to hear in the audio signal as an artificial distortion, when it is off each time by a maximum amount of that much.

So, as you can see, we are well equipped to hear tiny microvibrations, especially when these are amplified 63 billion times before we take a listen with our very sensitive hearing to investigate what it is that might really be going on at a sub-atomic level in our sound systems’ circuitry.

And if that is not enough, think of this. If a microphone is a capacitor, and that capacitor is providing you with the music signal that you would very much like to hear, think about all of the other capacitances within your gear’s circuitry which are providing you with signals which you would very much rather not hear!- Louis Motek - LessLoss Audio"
 
Thank you for that Jap.
I have certainly been able to hear the benefits of isolation and accept how unwanted sounds can harm the sound quality of my system but I now have a much better understanding of it all now.
 
I found that with Entreq boxes as well when i was auditioning them...this was Ultra SS let alone Ultra 5. I use isolation under my Tripoint and mass damping on top...but it takes 20kg to make any appreciable difference on top...any less and i could not tell ANY difference. Interestingly, i discussed with Miguel who fully supported the approach...he felt that anything to help reduce any microvibration on any physical connection to the system should not hurt and might help.

Thanks Lloyd.
We are obviously not imagining the benefits of isolating even passive components and Jap's post is helpful in understanding this issue.
 
Thanx jap for sparing the time for such an informative answer. Still getting my head around the concept of how vibration isolation can be so fundamental, but the proof is in the listening.
 
not only do micro vibrations matter to the actual true sound our systems are attempting to reproduce, but a few billion years of evolution has resulted in our senses being able to appreciate that it matters.

we might not always be able to coherently define (in words) what we hear or why it matters.....but it does matter.
 
Entreq Olympus Tellus

Hi All,

Just received a new price sheet from Entreq. It includes the Olympus Tellus. The description: 6 silver connections, 1 copper dedicated for connection for wall socket ground. Price US retail(today's conversion rate): $7,775.73.

John
 
I certainly easily understand how vibrations of ac in wires can be greatly influence those signals. But in grounding devices it is hard to explain, even though I know dampening vibration in such devices matters.

My experiences are entirely with the Tripoint Troy Signature. I did two experiments. The first was to put the Stillpoints Ultra 5s under the Signature. Quite simply the sound was ruined! It had lost dynamics and resolution. I am at a complete loss to account for how this can happen. I did have the same thing happen with SP Ultra 5s on a HB Cable Design PowerSlave Acryllc power strip, however.

The second experiment was substituting the Star Sound Tech Audio Points replacing the existing feet under the Signature. I had recalled that the original Troy had these. In this case the Audio Points were superior and remained.

There is no electronic inside the Troy Signature and I suspect that the current must be minimal and unable to get back to the components. So I cannot imagine how any of what I found to be explained.
 
I certainly easily understand how vibrations of ac in wires can be greatly influence those signals. But in grounding devices it is hard to explain, even though I know dampening vibration in such devices matters.

My experiences are entirely with the Tripoint Troy Signature. I did two experiments. The first was to put the Stillpoints Ultra 5s under the Signature. Quite simply the sound was ruined! It had lost dynamics and resolution. I am at a complete loss to account for how this can happen. I did have the same thing happen with SP Ultra 5s on a HB Cable Design PowerSlave Acryllc power strip, however.

The second experiment was substituting the Star Sound Tech Audio Points replacing the existing feet under the Signature. I had recalled that the original Troy had these. In this case the Audio Points were superior and remained.

There is no electronic inside the Troy Signature and I suspect that the current must be minimal and unable to get back to the components. So I cannot imagine how any of what I found to be explained.

Miguel warned me to be careful with Stillpoints with Tripoint. I told him at the time i use Auralex isolation platform underneath instead...plus Artesania damper on top with 20kg of brass weight, and he seemed more supportive of that approach.
 
I wonder if that has something to do with his only competition...Entreq which happens to be distributed by Stillpoints in the US ? Sounds fishy to me....

I am a pretty suspicious guy by nature, but in this case i was fine with Miguel's comments. The reason is he actually uses Stillpoints personally...but he POLISHES them beforehand and also agreed with how i use them in my system (with HRS Nimbus Coupler on top)...and his listening notes are the same as mine about Ultra 5s which also gave me some level of comfort (ie, we're both wrong or both right! ;) )

after about a year, he moved on to the Dalby pieces which apparently are awesome. When you talk to him directly, he is just a seriously OTT audiophile who loves going all out on his stuff.
 
Since I tried this before Stillpoints represented Entreq, your suggestion seems ill-founded. Are you suggesting that Stillpoint made the Ultra 5s to not work with the Troy Signature?

No, I am suggesting that using stillpoints on tripoint will probably yield similar benefits as they do with Entreq. That said, I don't find Miguel very credible(embellishments) regardless of his products proven subjective benefits. Lighten up...you tripoint devotees are hyper sensitive...
 

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