freq response of analogue recorders !!

[Bruce B]

I like this one with the aria , the aria /ampex seems to be a extremely neutral design , i am a little concerned with tubes in small signal amplification because of possible noise

http://www.atrservice.com/realtimedup.php

I had the ATR/Aria and got rid of it. I felt the Aria took away all the properties of tape sound that we liked.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I ll keep that in mind bruce .

Tomelex dont worry there is a studer plug in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gszni4TOATo

Youve got a friend on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgH99wyRoVc

To be honest , that CD is missing something should be clear in my opinion , a lot of recording is still done on tape , why would that be ?
Cd s are cheap to make and easy to market and make profit , its not put into the world for accuracy or soundquality in the first place

 

[andromedaaudio]

Picked up the A 80 today , that thing is heavy !!!
It looks complete , see what the technician says

 

[microstrip]

Only electrolytic cap will dry out but most of them in here is for by pass , if they were bad , will more hum or distort, all coupling caps are tantalum cap , most are 47uf , in my modification was change to better one without polarity (Solen) has a very good result , but it is too big can't put into the card has wire out
tony ma

Perhaps I am not remembering well, but I think I have read in a tape forum that most capacitors in Studer's are not tantalum - they look like they are tantalum but they are a special high quality cap and should not be changed. However I could not confirm this idea now - I will not be able to access my Studer archives until next week.

 

[andromedaaudio]

The technician i brought the A 80 and B 62 too , said he had lived in switzerland for 1,5 year and has followed a specialized technician course at studers.
He said the tantalum caps were a good product at that time but there are now better components , so he wants to change caps on the audioboard as well among other things, he is now evaluating the stuff and will give a plan and report back to me for the definetively go ahead plan , he also has all the calibration equipment
By the way he said , willy studer considered the A 820 as his masterpiece

 

[tony ky ma]

When change a component is not from it's original supply, end up will change the sound too, better or worse, even in the same value . a lot of people like to keep the sound in stock because of the brand name, even it is much better still is not the sound of that brand name anymore or will losing it's re-sell value. talking of Studer, the time they used tubes in circuit design like C37, the deck mechanism of C37 is not as good as A80 and blank tape's output highest was 250 nWb/m only, when high output blank tape 500 nWb/m came out to market with A80's circuit of transistor design, it's recording was presenting top of the world level , no one will dare to modify A80's circuit because it's high price and believe they were the best, today thank for digital recording makes A80's price down to we can afford and can start to think about modification because not thinking of re-sell, so finally we found out that A80's mechanic with tube gear and high output tape can do recording and play back much better than their golden age
tony ma

 

[jdza]

Perhaps I am not remembering well, but I think I have read in a tape forum that most capacitors in Studer's are not tantalum - they look like they are tantalum but they are a special high quality cap and should not be changed. However I could not confirm this idea now - I will not be able to access my Studer archives until next week.

The capacitors you are referring are very high quality Philips dry electrolytics. They are blue in colour ,with a teardrop shape. They can easily mistaken for tantalums. AFAIK they are not used in the A80 or B62 but can be found in the 80s machines i.e. from the A810 and later. They are also used in EMT turntables.There are also numerous ceramic caps in the A80 boards. I once told my Tech to get rid of these only to be politely informed that they are used for RF rejection only and that for that function there is no better capacitor.Just my personal opinion but I prefer the sound of the unmolested boards with the Frako time bombs to renovated boards with "name" capacitors finding the latter too incisive and lacking the Frako "bloom" -and boom! In general there is simply no space for film capacitors though I believe some have found a way.

Re the B62. There seems to be 4 generations of B62 machines.While the record boards appear to differ from the A80 R/RC the repro boards are identical.I have a very early machine where the PSU card differs substantially and a 1974 machine where repro cards are identical but record cards differ like Ki indicated.As I have posted before , the B62 has a more punchy upfront sound than the A 80R despite the shared electronics.John Lennon liked his and Decca used these in their mobile facility to record some of the most monumental recordings of all time.The B62 is a nightmare to work on though,partly due to its compact size and mechanicals that differ from the later machines. Tape handling is not even close to the A80 and an out of tune B62 can destroy tape in a way other machines can only dream about.There is a strange and complex double brake system that controls tape tension and the brake drums have a piece of magnetic tape stuck to it with a reader head that servo controls speed.Parts availability are very limited.

 

[andromedaaudio]

My recollection after having heard tape for about a week and a half now and on an " old machine with old tapes "
Its a higher / closer to the real thing quality of reproduction /recording despite some noise (which i hope gets mostly resolved ) , what i heard is that it just sounds very natural and very transparent
it ll probably get only better after adjusting the machines and buying high quality recordings , but hey maybe its only imagination
I heard mainly piano recordings , and the sustain of notes was simple wonderfull, plus it was almost as if your sitting with the audience , the coughs , the feet moving that kind of stuff

Tape machines are not quiet....look at the signal to noise specs in your post 12. Dolby and dbx were (on specs sheets) big improvements to SN, more than 10 db. Some tape machines had noise reduction included.

Really, though, going into tape is about a "sound" not about specifications, and tubes IMO are not going to be "better", just consider that as far as tape machines, a huge amount of the stuff from the seventies were recorded on transistor units.

Given the ballistics of analog VU meters, any tape you buy that is punching past -5 is generating rich odd harmonics and compression effects anyway. It is about the tape sound, some call it density, others harmonic richness. Tubes are not going to in general give those effects but certainly can pass them along.

Basically, outside of a cartridge, you are really into tone effect with tape players. Just sayin it aint so much about accuracy.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I cannot do it , but i doubt it very much , I think its more of a thing like :
Whos gonna buy 100 of $$ worth of tapes per album ,eeuuhh nobody, okay lets invent something cheap small and physically easy to sell and bring it to a large audience and make some $$$$$$$

First tape (too expensive )then lps ,then cassets then minidisk then finally the cheapest of them all CD sss

 

[tony ky ma]

My recollection after having heard tape for about a week and a half now and on an " old machine with old tapes "
Its a higher / closer to the real thing quality of reproduction /recording despite some noise (which i hope gets mostly resolved ) , what i heard is that it just sounds very natural and very transparent
it ll probably get only better after adjusting the machines and buying high quality recordings , but hey maybe its only imagination
I heard mainly piano recordings , and the sustain of notes was simple wonderfull, plus it was almost as if your sitting with the audience , the coughs , the feet moving that kind of stuff

You will be happy with our 396nWb/m level recording in our high output tape, the noise level is 4db down than 180nWb/m level even without Dolby or any noise reduction circuit, also the dynamic range is 4db bigger too, so when to play our tape ( unless you order a 180nWb/m level recording that we also can do for you but it is a wast for a high output blank tape) you have to adjust the output level to 0db with our test tone in the beginning of the tape, otherwise it will be too hot in sound
TONY MA

 

[andromedaaudio]

Tomelex but , as i understood you have roughly 2 choices in the studio , an analogue studer A800/80 for example or other analogue machines or Pro tools digital recording .
When you buy and play the tapeproject or tony s tapes you never touch digital , and these are the comparisons you want to make

 

[andromedaaudio]

Look forward trying/buying some of your tapes later on , i read on your site you only accept paypal ??
I suppose pay in advance is also okay
Do i need some special adjustments being made by the tech to optimize to the tapes you make / sell???

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yeah probably , but it was also a calculation , i needed to buy a superb and probably expensive phonostage to get the vinyl where i want it to be , and even then i might have to live with the fact that there is a better source out there .
And having spent a lot of money on digital some years ago without much satisfaction the choices become limited

 

[tony ky ma]

You can contact Ed Pong, he will answer all your questions, what your deck needs is a output level adjust or control and with a level meter will be more easy, without meter is still ok because it is not need exactly 4db down, feel by the ear still ok since your tech will set your deck in 250nWb/m level by the test tape, the red area of a VU meter is +3db but not all the time in that area depend how strong signal in recording so after you adjust to 0db by our test tone then time to play other recording tape again you have put it back higher otherwise that will sound too low
tony ma

 

[andromedaaudio]

thanks , i have VU meters outputlevel control

 

[andromedaaudio]

I like digital on movies /documentaries , house music plus its very convenient

 

[Ki Choi]

your tech will set your deck in 250nWb/m level by the test tape, the red area of a VU meter is +3db but not all the time in that area depend how strong signal in recording so after you adjust to 0db by our test tone

Hi Tony, if I understand the situation correctly, if the machine is calibrated using 250nWb/m test tape and want to play Ed tape with VU meters moving in normal ranges, the VU meters should hit -3VU with 1Khz test tone to match Ed's tapes instead of hitting +3VU. If it is set to +3VU, the needles will be dancing only in the red zone other than during the the silent passages, it seems to me.

Ki

 

[tony ky ma]

Hi Ki
If the deck is already set at 250nWb/m, when you play our tape's test tone, needles should in red zone, turn it down to zero db that mean -4db from 250nWb/m setting
tony

 

[Ki Choi]

Ok Tony, I agree with you. I may have misunderstood your earlier message as an instruction on how to change the standard +4dBm VU meter setting on Studer A80RC to play your tape and have the VU meter needles to dance below the red zone.

Ki

 

[c1ferrari]

The technician i brought the A 80 and B 62 too , said he had lived in switzerland for 1,5 year and has followed a specialized technician course at studers.
By the way he said , willy studer considered the A 820 as his masterpiece

Huge +1