Good mid-price audiophile switches

[Superdad]

If that were true, adding a switch between your router or NAS and streamer could not improve the sound. Yet it clearly does, IME.

Well it is Saturday evening and my dear wife will soon be home from a trip, so I will be brief :

I encourage people to look deeply at the actual methods being used--and what is accomplished or not--when considering various Ethernet switches and filters. And also to consider the goals.
Most of what is seen in various forms is strictly passive such as repetition of the multi-core magnetics that is already behind every RJ45 port in the world, plus a couple of capacitors and inductors.
Also popular are some attempts at improved clocking--though all but one company () does so only in a single domain and without any sort of true jitter reduction.

Yet it is important to consider what the goals really are--and I avoid speaking of "noise" in a general way as it is like going to doctor and ranting about "germs" or to a chef and chatting about "spices" in a generic terms. There are all sorts or noise--coming from everything, the chips themselves, the power networks on the boards, through the cable, etc. Some is common-mode, some is high-source impedance, and the frequencies are all over the place.
But how it all propagates, and how/why it has any effect inside the DAC, is a complex subject.
Our paper that Tom linked to above is our second one--more about clocking issues--but it does help explain how amplitude modulation (noise) turns into phase modulation and back.
For a dive into the multiple ways ground-plane noise (which essentially becomes what we refer to as "clock threshold jitter" affecting the DAC's master clock pin) propagates and methods to block it, please look to this paper:
"How perturbations on digital signals can affect sound quality without changing bits..."

[We take an active approach to it--and our EtherREGEN is still the only switch in the world putting Ethernet signals through high-speed differential isolation chips across an air-gap "moat" with dual-domain reclocking using 10GHz-capable ultra-low-jitter flip-flops.
Lot's of other fancy looking boxes out there--at prices below and way above us--but not much actual new technical innovation being implemented. Just sayin'...]

My point--and purpose to the links--is that we hope people will explore and educate themselves about the mechanisms that are actually taking place. Otherwise, without some shared technical knowledge and vocabulary, we are all just yacking generically in circles.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

If that were true, adding a switch between your router or NAS and streamer could not improve the sound. Yet it clearly does, IME.

Like I said reduced not killed.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

As I say, semantics. The original discovery of the positive impact of a generic/stock/basic switch on sound quality, if installed just before the streamer, may have been accidental but it was a real thing, based mainly on the galvanic isolation inherent in most switch designs... only after that did audio-focused manufacturers seek to ensure the switch itself was quiet too.

Sure okay…

 

[Porsche]

I use the silent angel nx switch with wonderful results

 

[TRHH]

Gents

Interesting discussion.

Would be interesting to know which switch's are "silent", reduces interference etc. Than I would buy one a compare it with my Cisco Meraki Go GS110-8

Have a nice day.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Gents

Interesting discussion.

Would be interesting to know which switch's are "silent", reduces interference etc. Than I would buy one a compare it with my Cisco Meraki Go GS110-8

Have a nice day.

You may have seen this. https://www.alpha-audio.net/review/a-very-deep-dive-into-network-switches-listening-and-measuring/

 

[audiobomber]

Gents

Interesting discussion.

Would be interesting to know which switch's are "silent", reduces interference etc. Than I would buy one a compare it with my Cisco Meraki Go GS110-8

Have a nice day.

The EtherRegen with Teddy Pardo MiniTeddy beats the Silent Angel N16 and LHY SW-10 in my home listening trials, at a significantly lower price.

 

[MrDJP]

At risk of telling you what you already know, the best switch in the world won't make its maximum difference if you don't position it correctly. In domestic settings, switches were of course originally intended as port replicators and typically sit just after the router. By contrast, for audio purposes you want to give the switch the best possible opportunity to kill noise and to do this it needs to be just (say 0.5m to 1m cable) before the streamer.
Whichever switch you go for, I hope this helps.

Thanks for the heads up, but yes my plan was always to leaver my consumer grade switch as is, & to add any "audiophile" switch/isolator just before my streamer.

 

[tony22]

The EtherRegen with Teddy Pardo MiniTeddy beats the Silent Angel N16 and LHY SW-10 in my home listening trials, at a significantly lower price.

I’m interested in hearing more about this.

 

[audiobomber]

I’m interested in hearing more about this.

Sure!

My system at the time was:
NAS > ethernet > Silent Angel N8 with Welborne Labs PS-REG LPS > 15 meter ethernet > EtherRegen with Zero-Zone 50W LPS > ethernet > exaSound PlayPoint.

The short ethernet cables were Furutech LAN-8 NCF, the long run was used with generic CAT6, Yauhody CAT8 and Audio Sensibility Supra Super (Supra CAT8 with Telegartner connectors, cryogenically treated). The CAT8 cables were used with and without a LAN isolator. The N16 was directly substituted for the ER, using the same AC and DC cables. port 1 from the network, port 16 to the PlayPoint. The difference was immediately noticeable, the ER had better clarity, despite the $125 LPS. Sound from the N16 was quite dark. Adding an expensive Verrastar AC cable to the N16 did not eliminate the gap.

I had the SW-10 in-house for a week. My system at the time was:
NAS > ethernet > Silent Angel N8 with iPower SMPS > ethernet > opticalModule Deluxe v2.3 with Welborne Labs PS-REG LPS > 15 meter Corning single-mode fiber optic cable with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > EtherRegen with Zero-Zone 2020 SS LPS . exaSound PlayPoint.

I replaced the ER and upper-tier Zero-Zone with the SW-10, same cables on both. Every time I thought I heard something better on one or the other, another song would equalize the comparison. My opinion remains the same as it was after listening to these two in a friends' more upscale system (K50, Tambaqui, Allnic monoblocks, SF Serafino). Either switch can be better than the other, depending on ancillaries (power supply, AC & DC cable, fuses, clock, vibration isolation).

The ER price advantage narrows because a high quality PSU is needed for the ER to keep up, but it matched the SW-10 with a $200 Chinese LPS, so quite a bit less outlay. I now use a Teddy Pardo 12/2 on the ER and have also used the Pardo MiniTeddy. These both bump the sound beyond where it was during testing vs. the LHY.
PS, the power cable supplied with the SW-10 is really bad, causes bloat in the lower registers and spoils the sound.

My friend with the expensive system owns the SW-10 and an ER with Pardo MiniTeddy LPS. He was using the ER to send an optical signal to the LHY, because he assumed the SW-10 was the better component. After suggesting it for a few months, I finally convinced him to switch them around. He says the sound improved with the ER feeding the K50 directly, which to me shows the ER with MiniTeddy beats the SW-10.(Both pieces use upgraded AC and DC cables in his system).

 

[tony22]

Thanks! I have a spare 12V Farad PS lying around doing nothing… I wonder…

 

[audiobomber]

Thanks! I have a spare 12V Farad PS lying around doing nothing… I wonder…

That would be great on an ER!

I don't see any network audio gear in your profile. Are you streaming now?

 

[tony22]

That would be great on an ER!

I don't see any network audio gear in your profile. Are you streaming now?

Been streaming since around 2002, starting with the original SliMP3. Right now I’m running CAT6a to an original Gigafoil, into a Cisco 2960 modified with a linear power supply. Nothing really to complain about with the sound, but any cost conscious improvement is worth considering.

 

[ssfas]

Cisco CBS110-8T Reference Upgrade (Audiophile Tuned)

Cisco CBS110-8T Reference Upgrade (Audiophile Tuned) We now offer the excellent CBS110-8T (chosen for it's performance with digital audio / video

www.fidelityaudio.co.uk

Network Switch Linear PSU(s) - 12V Low noise

Network Switch Linear PSU(s) - 12V Low noise Based on our V2 range of power supplies (PRO 1, PRO 2, SE, Reference Signature) this DC power supplies

www.fidelityaudio.co.uk

 

[tony22]

Hi Steven. It’s me from our other popular forum site.

 

[ssfas]

Hi Steven. It’s me from our other popular forum site.

I figured! I joined here because I’m doing a Garrard project and there is a good thread here.

Unbeknownst to many Americans, there is a republic over here called Yorkshire where they make lots of good audio. Fidelity Audio is a chap called Brenton in Doncaster who offers great value for all sorts of things besides switches. He is only about 20 miles from Ray @ Classic Turntables who does the best Garrard restoration/rebuilds, Nick @ Londog Audio who makes the best regenerated power supplies for Garrard/Lenco is another 15 miles away, as is Carl, who is making my plinth. Dr Sean Jacobs, who makes very good power supplies, including the ones in Innuos machines, is based in Bingley, West Yorkshire. My current turntable was made by a company called Claro in Richmond, North Yorkshire.

 

[zacho]

Has anyone tried the COS S10?

 

[ssfas]

Has anyone tried the COS S10?

Looks like a beefed up Cisco Meraki. All aftermarket switches seem pretty similar, basically improved clock, power supply and capacitors. Just depends how far you want to go and if you want to pay a premium for a new shiny case.

The marketing starts with the usual scare tactic: "S10 is an Ethernet switch designed to handle the frustrating lack of audio fidelity arising from streaming." Sorry COS, streaming is not broken before we buy your switch, but sometimes switches can be of some benefits, sometimes not.

 

[audiobomber]

All aftermarket switches seem pretty similar, basically improved clock, power supply and capacitors. Just depends how far you want to go and if you want to pay a premium for a new shiny case.

I agree, except for the EtherREGEN, which is different, the only one with a moat.

 

[Superdad]

I agree, except for the EtherREGEN, which is different, the only one with a moat.

Thanks and true.
More specifically, we use high-speed, low-jitter differential digital isolator chips to pass SGMII Ethernet—and two frequencies of differential clocks—across a PCB gap (the “moat”). And on both sides of that moat we reclock using expensive ultra-low-jitter 10GHz-capable flip-flops.
So two 100% isolated (data, clocking, and power) domains—our ‘A’ and ‘B’ sides.