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This is instead of large 3 layer sliding glass doors, the 3 other walls are brick, it gives an even sound signature, you can then add absorbers, diffuser or bass traps to that if desired afterwards. Starting out with a even sound signature and room balance, especially in the speaker end of the room is important for good sound, especially with dipoles and omnidirectional speakers. I don't worry much about flammability, i live in an old house with wood floors and ceilings, its going to burn like a tinderbox anyway. I dont smoke, don't lite candles and have fire extinguishers strategically placed. Fire is also monitored and reported trough my alarm company.:)

Each case is a case, we are just making general considerations about materials. Omnidirectional speakers like MBL, are in the exception section!
But yes, having conditions to avoid sound treatments is the best. It is why some people prefer well designed drywall walls - why adding bass traps when we can have natural bass absorption in the room? I suppose you admit that a perfectly rigid room will have excessive bass energy.
BTW, the large 3 layer sliding glass doors are a great bass trap!

My previous house was similar to yours, fire detectors and alarm company included. :) IMO flammability can be an issue with people having listening rooms in basements or attics with limited accessibility.
 
I used the word “most” because I think this method of controlling and treating the sound at all frequency (room treatment by dry wall + absorbers + …) is wrong. It is like controlling distortion by negative feedback or designing dead sounding turntables. I think nothing should absorb the music energy in wrong way.

Semantics and dogmas again , with some added poetry ...

I had many absorber panels in my room and I am quite familiar with how room treatment affects on the sound and how alter the harmonics (tone).

View attachment 144435

Nice to know you became an "expert" after such experiences. What the sound devices being shown? Please do not call them a diffusor ...
 
Most fully treated rooms with rockwool and drywalls are not good , I prefer live and natural sound not dead sound

Here we go again, the famous "natural" sound at last!

I think controlling and absorbing the bass is good for sound recording studios not audiophiles listening room.

No, both should control bass (absorbing is a way of controlling it) but they have different needs. The problem is when people blindly apply studio recipes to stereo listening rooms.

The problem is this industry advertise room treatment and you can see Robert Harley use this method but experts like David @ddk never liked this method.

Yes, I know about DDK preferences. Never read anything about acoustics coming from Robert Hartley, sorry.
 
Each case is a case, we are just making general considerations about materials. Omnidirectional speakers like MBL, are in the exception section!
But yes, having conditions to avoid sound treatments is the best. It is why some people prefer well designed drywall walls - why adding bass traps when we can have natural bass absorption in the room? I suppose you admit that a perfectly rigid room will have excessive bass energy.
BTW, the large 3 layer sliding glass doors are a great bass trap!

My previous house was similar to yours, fire detectors and alarm company included. :) IMO flammability can be an issue with people having listening rooms in basements or attics with limited accessibility.
Best sound for me has been in rooms with brick walls, i have highly adaptable bass adjustability on both mid bass and deep bass regions. Glass is not great it has its own signature both in the high frequencies and the bass region. Dry wall can be ok if built right from the beginning, or rattle too much if not. The worst sound i had was in a wood house in Sweden, flexible walls and floor built over a rock cavity for basement, bad bass response and drum like frequencies resonating from the floor.
 
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The claim is surely meaningless and abusive, unless we are given the specific circumstances. Imagine someone writing "Petrol is ultimately worse than electricity" ...
Nothing is more meaningless than favoring drywall over stiff, rigid concrete without explaining its benefits.

Whatever acoustic treatment you do over drywall you can do the same to concrete or brick wall. Additionally you don’t have to deal with reinforcing as you have to do with drywall.
 
Best sound for me has been in rooms with brick walls, i have highly adaptable bass adjustability on both mid bass and deep bass regions.

Most times bass problems are due to dips and peaks. There is no way to adjust for dips, except adding a separate subwoofer at a different position. And unless you use a good equalizer, it is not possible to adjust for sharp peaks, as those created by rigid walls.

Glass is not great it has its own signature both in the high frequencies and the bass region. Dry wall can be ok if built right from the beginning, or rattle too much if not.

If drywall ratlles we should get a new installer. It must be used with adequate accessories - I used Green Glue between sheets and damping strips on contact points.

The worst sound i had was in a wood house in Sweden, flexible walls and floor built over a rock cavity for basement, bad bass response and drum like frequencies resonating from the floor.

I am much more interested in your best sound ... :)
 
Most times bass problems are due to dips and peaks. There is no way to adjust for dips, except adding a separate subwoofer at a different position. And unless you use a good equalizer, it is not possible to adjust for sharp peaks, as those created by rigid walls.



If drywall ratlles we should get a new installer. It must be used with adequate accessories - I used Green Glue between sheets and damping strips on contact points.



I am much more interested in your best sound ... :)
My analog crossover built specifically for my speaker system can adjust for dips or peaks if required, i have it set flat as i don't have any problems in the bass region. I have a wonderful sounding room of decent dimensions, before i broke down a wall and doubled the length of my room i had a small peak in the 50HZ region, that now is gone. :)
 
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My analog crossover built specifically for my speaker system can adjust for dips or peaks if required,


So it has adjustable center frequency Q and attenuation? Considering room peaks or dips are typically very high Q and can be over +/- 20dB that is normally well beyond what a typical analog crossover can deal with.

Rob :)
 
So it has adjustable center frequency Q and attenuation? Considering room peaks or dips are typically very high Q and can be over +/- 20dB that is normally well beyond what a typical analog crossover can deal with.

Rob :)
There are also internal dip switches for phase and gain/ balance settings in the crossover. The stat tower/ transition tower handover can also be adjusted in the passive crossover of the main towers, depending on front wall distance and seating distance.
 
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My analog crossover built specifically for my speaker system can adjust for dips or peaks if required, i have it set flat as i don't have any problems in the bass region. I have a wonderful sounding room of decent dimensions, before i broke down a wall and doubled the length of my room i had a small peak in the 50HZ region, that now is gone. :)

You have to explain me how a crossover can compensate for dips caused by bass cancelation - one real big problem of rigid walls. BTW, just because you have a room blessed by the audio gods, we can't expect that everyone had such blessing. I am not interested in focusing in your particular room, that I see has some nice features, such as giant bass trap, that compensate for the rigid walls. Nice to know, and surely of interest, but not relevant to our main subject.
 
There are also internal dip switches for phase and gain/ balance settings in the crossover. The stat tower/ transition tower handover can also be adjusted in the passive crossover of the main towers, depending on front wall distance and seating distance.

Thanks - as far as I could see this crossover has the typical 25 and 50 Hz centred equalizer used in the Martin Logan subwoofers, such as the Descent I have owned. Better than nothing, but extremely limited compared with modern DSP based systems, such as those used by JLAudio, for example, or a good bass equalizer, such as the old Rives Audio PARC.
 
You have to explain me how a crossover can compensate for dips caused by bass cancelation - one real big problem of rigid walls. BTW, just because you have a room blessed by the audio gods, we can't expect that everyone had such blessing. I am not interested in focusing in your particular room, that I see has some nice features, such as giant bass trap, that compensate for the rigid walls. Nice to know, and surely of interest, but not relevant to our main subject.
I don't have to explain anything to you Francisco, you know it all already :rolleyes: I worry about one room, the one my system resides in, and it sounds great mainly because i have done the work sometimes needed to make it sound great, no gods involved. You can deal with all the theoretical rooms you want, that is your specialty. The main subject was CD transports by the way, this thread went off tangent a while ago.
 
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Thanks - as far as I could see this crossover has the typical 25 and 50 Hz centred equalizer used in the Martin Logan subwoofers, such as the Descent I have owned. Better than nothing, but extremely limited compared with modern DSP based systems, such as those used by JLAudio, for example, or a good bass equalizer, such as the old Rives Audio PARC.
And in your case you can't hear the difference anyway, you can just use full DSP. :)
 
I don't have to explain anything to you Francisco, you know it all already :rolleyes: I worry about one room, the one my system resides in, and it sounds great mainly because i have done the work sometimes needed to make it sound great, no gods involved. You can deal with all the theoretical rooms you want, that is your specialty. The main subject was CD transports by the way, this thread went off tangent a while ago.

Well, I assume that one someone makes the strong statements you did, he is supposed to explain them. Curiously I am addressing problems of real rooms, as I had to research to solve them, IMO you wrongly theorize on your beliefs. The thread went on an interesting debate on drywall and rigid walls, as usual when some feels uncomfortable with it he suggests ending the subject and returning to the main subject ...
 
good Lord, these threads always turn comical
 
Curiously I am addressing problems of real rooms, as I had to research to solve them

The problem is you think the audio subjects are very simple and every problem will solve simply by mathematics. The problem is you think the acoustic science easily solve the bass problem in room without thinking about the negative side effects.

simple solutions like sound absorbtion in the room has two problem :
- it is not 100% effective specially in smaller rooms
- the sound is not musical and live in that rooms

The right method is proper speaker placement by Stirling Trayle then lowering RT time with furnitures, curtain, board ...

When speaker is in the room the room is against the speaker, when Stirling Trayle place the speakers in right position then the room is not against the speaker so the room help to get perfect sound.
The bass will be perfect (highest gain, perfect dynamic, perfect image) then the midrange will open, dynamic, crystal and free from any problem.

After perfect speaker placement you will not have bass problem and there is no need to use huge dry walls.

 
The subject of proper speaker placement is very complex but if I want introduce you a simple example I can say the simple example is the impedance matching in electronics :



When Zl = Zs then the power transfer will be maximum.

When the room is not against the speakers then you will get maximum dynamics, transparency and image
 

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