Good ol’ honest engineering - the world best cd transport from years ago

[Amir]

Dear @Amir IME glass is not the worst sounding material regarding acoustics. If they are well fitted on windows, dampened with rubber and thick enough they actually don’t do much harm. Marble floor is not the worst either. Maybe more carpeting helps but a well supported wooden floor is better.

IMHO the most problematic area in the picture of your listening room is drywall. Drywall is ultimately worse than glass and marble. I’m guessing the air vents on the ceiling constructed using drywall. It works like an additional driver ruining bass and midbass by adding reverberation, killing clarity. I hear you’re saying your system sounds great and clear but I’m sure it will sound better when you get rid of that drywall. I cannot explain how bad drywall is and how impossible to get rid of it’s negative effects. Concrete or brick walls and a concrete floor and ceiling is a must for a listening room. If desired they can be covered with wood afterwards but it must be supported/dampened not to resonate. Anybody thinks a drywalled room (all walls) sounds good or can be treated to sound good is wrong.

Dear Mtemur,
Side walls are rigid but the ceiling is drywall and I attached 200kg natural wood (2cm thickness) on the ceiling but the white color hide the wood texture on the ceiling.
I can control the glass side and also the floor but the main problem is the rigid side walls.
The TAD has wide dispersion and slap eco between two side walls is not good.

For solid surfaces I prefer natural wood effects very natural and warm.

 

[Amir]

Properly used drywall in an excellent material for sound rooms. There are many approaches to building a listening room, there is not a "best" . In fact some of the best listening rooms we read about in high-end forums are drywalled rooms, as you call them.

Surely I also do not find the shown HVAC structure as a good thing, but I do not know what care was taken when building it. And from a purely subjective and personal perspective , listening in the shown space with such clean and empty aspect would create a negative listening bias in me. Just my opinion, others would probably love it.

Most fully treated rooms with rockwool and drywalls are not good , I prefer live and natural sound not dead sound

 

[Amir]

The energy radiated by speakers must be absorbed - and a moving surface can be an indication of absorption in bass frequencies. Can we talk in terms of standing waves?

The solution is not heavy absorbing , the solution is proper speaker placement . Stirling Trayle can help

Audio Systems Optimized System Setup - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

read audio reviews, ratings, and user opinions on audio equipment before you buy an audio system

www.theaudiobeat.com

 

[exupgh12]

Dear Mtemur,
Side walls are rigid but the ceiling is drywall and I attached 200kg natural wood (2cm thickness) on the ceiling but the white color hide the wood texture on the ceiling.
I can control the glass side and also the floor but the main problem is the rigid side walls.
The TAD has wide dispersion and slap eco between two side walls is not good.

For solid surfaces I prefer natural wood effects very natural and warm.

Hi Amir,

I understand TAD speakers exhibit good horizontal dispersion, which is beneficial for achieving even sound distribution in a room.
Given the importance of room acoustics in achieving optimal sound quality, I wonder if you've had a chance to measure the reverberation time in your listening room - reverberation time plays a significant role in how sound is perceived, influencing factors like clarity, warmth, and overall listening experience.

 

[Amir]

Hi Amir,

I understand TAD speakers exhibit good horizontal dispersion, which is beneficial for achieving even sound distribution in a room.
Given the importance of room acoustics in achieving optimal sound quality, I wonder if you've had a chance to measure the reverberation time in your listening room - reverberation time plays a significant role in how sound is perceived, influencing factors like clarity, warmth, and overall listening experience.

Hi,

I will treat the room after speaker placement so I will send you the RT after speaker placement

 

[DasguteOhr]

This definitely has not been my experience. This is the first time I have even heard of this claim.

a dywall, if not properly reinforced, acts like a plate resonator (helmholz) it absorbs sound energy and changes the homogeneous sound. the best way to change this is to use an OSB wood panel as a substructure and screw the plasterboard onto it

 

[microstrip]

Most fully treated rooms with rockwool and drywalls are not good , I prefer live and natural sound not dead sound

What is the point in qualifying such affirmation with "most" ? How can you have a global idea about the statistics of existing listening rooms?

Surely some rooms are over damped and sound dead in my preference - a simple RT60 versus frequency measurement shows it. I have once measured one of such rooms - an irregular RT60, down to .3 seconds in the treble. But it was not related to the drywall walls, it was a question of excess of poor quality acoustic treatments.

 

[microstrip]

This definitely has not been my experience. This is the first time I have even heard of this claim.

The claim is surely meaningless and abusive, unless we are given the specific circumstances. Imagine someone writing "Petrol is ultimately worse than electricity" ...

 

[microstrip]

The solution is not heavy absorbing , the solution is proper speaker placement . Stirling Trayle can help

Audio Systems Optimized System Setup - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

read audio reviews, ratings, and user opinions on audio equipment before you buy an audio system

www.theaudiobeat.com

Surely, all the exiting rules of physics and acoustics are an amusement ...

Proper speaker placement is needed, but good rooms are a must.

BTW, you are the only one addressing "heavy" absorption. Can you qualify it?

 

[exupgh12]

Hi,

I will treat the room after speaker placement so I will send you the RT after speaker placement

Thank you, Amir. I appreciate it.

Here, the most common construction method for both external and most internal walls involves hard walls, typically made using poured concrete and thermo bricks.

 

[microstrip]

a dywall, if not properly reinforced, acts like a plate resonator (helmholz) it absorbs sound energy and changes the homogeneous sound. the best way to change this is to use an OSB wood panel as a substructure and screw the plasterboard onto it

Absorption of a material depends on frequency .The full spectrum energy acoustic energy sent by the speakers must be absorbed in some defined time. Fortunately drywall, properly and wisely used can do bass absorption. It is a complex process, Composite structures can be used.

Surely, the trick is on the "properly and wisely used". On his book, F. Toole reports an interesting case where the sound engineer specified single drywall at a part of a room and the contractor felt double drywall would be much better - the room acquired a boomy bass and upper-bass/lowermidrange coloration.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Absorption of a material depends on frequency .The full spectrum energy acoustic energy sent by the speakers must be absorbed in some defined time. Fortunately drywall, properly and wisely used can do bass absorption. It is a complex process, Composite structures can be used.

Surely, the trick is on the "properly and wisely used". On his book, F. Toole reports an interesting case where the sound engineer specified single drywall at a part of a room and the contractor felt double drywall would be much better - the room acquired a boomy bass and upper-bass/lowermidrange coloration.

All theory is grey, I can say from experience that this method produces the best sound. I help some friends build a home cinema room. The structure of the wall is very important in determining what absorbs well and what absorbs poorly for the overall sound. This has always worked well.

 

[microstrip]

All theory is grey, I can say from experience that this method produces the best sound. I help some friends build a home cinema room. The structure of the wall is very important in determining what absorbs well and what absorbs poorly for the overall sound. This has always worked well.View attachment 144412

It looks like a good structure - what is behind it?

BTW, the technical requirements for a home cinema room are not the same as those for stereo.

 

[Lagonda]

a dywall, if not properly reinforced, acts like a plate resonator (helmholz) it absorbs sound energy and changes the homogeneous sound. the best way to change this is to use an OSB wood panel as a substructure and screw the plasterboard onto it

Or MDF, i use a double layer of 1 inch MDF glued together and skruede to the brick walls, very similar sound signature to the brick walls.

 

[microstrip]

Or MDF, i use a double layer of 1 inch MDF glued together and skruede to the brick walls, very similar sound signature to the brick walls.

Why wanting the sound signature of brick walls?

And why using a mixture of flammable materials in walls?

 

[DasguteOhr]

It looks like a good structure - what is behind it?

BTW, the technical requirements for a home cinema room are not the same as those for stereo.

post and beam wood(6 inch thick), filled with wood wool. pure nature.
I don't see any difference between concert recordings, watching films or normal stereo playback. The demands are even higher with films because the bass is usually deeper than in music.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Or MDF, i use a double layer of 1 inch MDF glued together and skruede to the brick walls, very similar sound signature to the brick walls.

I would rather use OSB, it's cheaper and then fireproof plasterboard. You can build cool double bass arrays in there. Did you ever feel a 7hz tone when the enterprice goes to warp. thats sounds not amazing when it rattle in the room.

 

[Lagonda]

Why wanting the sound signature of brick walls?

And why using a mixture of flammable materials in walls?

This is instead of large 3 layer sliding glass doors, the 3 other walls are brick, it gives an even sound signature, you can then add absorbers, diffuser or bass traps to that if desired afterwards. Starting out with a even sound signature and room balance, especially in the speaker end of the room is important for good sound, especially with dipoles and omnidirectional speakers. I don't worry much about flammability, i live in an old house with wood floors and ceilings, its going to burn like a tinderbox anyway. I dont smoke, don't lite candles and have fire extinguishers strategically placed. Fire is also monitored and reported trough my alarm company.

 

[Amir]

What is the point in qualifying such affirmation with "most" ? How can you have a global idea about the statistics of existing listening rooms?

Surely some rooms are over damped and sound dead in my preference - a simple RT60 versus frequency measurement shows it. I have once measured one of such rooms - an irregular RT60, down to .3 seconds in the treble. But it was not related to the drywall walls, it was a question of excess of poor quality acoustic treatments.

I used the word “most” because I think this method of controlling and treating the sound at all frequency (room treatment by dry wall + absorbers + …) is wrong. It is like controlling distortion by negative feedback or designing dead sounding turntables. I think nothing should absorb the music energy in wrong way.

I had many absorber panels in my room and I am quite familiar with how room treatment affects on the sound and how alter the harmonics (tone).

 

[Amir]

Absorption of a material depends on frequency .The full spectrum energy acoustic energy sent by the speakers must be absorbed in some defined time. Fortunately drywall, properly and wisely used can do bass absorption. It is a complex process, Composite structures can be used.

Surely, the trick is on the "properly and wisely used". On his book, F. Toole reports an interesting case where the sound engineer specified single drywall at a part of a room and the contractor felt double drywall would be much better - the room acquired a boomy bass and upper-bass/lowermidrange coloration.

I think controlling and absorbing the bass is good for sound recording studios not audiophiles listening room.
The problem is this industry advertise room treatment and you can see Robert Harley use this method but experts like David @ddk never liked this method.