Good ol’ honest engineering - the world best cd transport from years ago

[LL21]

I’ve listened to the CEC TL0 many times in my friend’s setup, and I’ve also listened to the Burmester 069 too. I haven’t had the chance to compare them side by side, but in terms of ease of flow, dynamics, and bass impact, the CEC TL0 is unmatched by the Burmester.

The Burmester 069 sounds great, but it’s not on the same level as the CEC TL0. I’ve also heard the TL1—it’s okay, but it’s not like the TL0. In fact, there’s no transport quite like the TL0.

I’ve also listened to the Zanden four-piece transport-DAC combo many times in my friend’s setup. It’s great, but it’s not comparable to the CEC. I’ve heard Metronome transports as well, both with Metronome DACs and with other DACs like Kondo. They’re great Philips Pro 2 transports, but nothing special. IMHO the only transport that might challenge the TL0 is the 47 Labs, but I haven’t had the chance to listen to it long enough to make a proper comparison.

If you’ve heard the CEC TL0 and don’t think it’s the best then there is something wrong with the setup. Try to find it. Sorry, that’s the only way I can put it.

That is great to read. I think the Zanden Transport is excellent but its main advantage for me is simply that it has been designed for the Zanden DAC. Couple the 4-box with the Waversa INT Ref Plus, and it really comes alive in a shockingly high resolution way. I did an audition with the Waversa and took a flier at an attractive price and literally walked out with it under my arm, and took it home and was extremely happy.

However, it is because it all works as one digital system.

As for standalone transports...the only other besides the one you mention which I am intrigued about is the original legendary Esoteric P0 or P0s. Have you ever heard it? By 'legend' the best transport ever made...

 

[DasguteOhr]

That is great to read. I think the Zanden Transport is excellent but its main advantage for me is simply that it has been designed for the Zanden DAC. Couple the 4-box with the Waversa INT Ref Plus, and it really comes alive in a shockingly high resolution way. I did an audition with the Waversa and took a flier at an attractive price and literally walked out with it under my arm, and took it home and was extremely happy.

However, it is because it all works as one digital system.

As for standalone transports...the only other besides the one you mention which I am intrigued about is the original legendary Esoteric P0 or P0s. Have you ever heard it? By 'legend' the best transport ever made...

View attachment 144245

Oh, there are other candidates that are better made... Denon DP S1 (affectionately known as Moon Base Alpha). The chassis is cast in one piece and the subchassis cd mechanism is mounted on it (3 Hz)like turntable. Denon didn't care what the production cost, they wanted to make a statement.
Transport 64lbs +dac 61lbs

Jvc victor xl 1000z they made the cd drive for denon dp s1
too

 

[SCAudiophile]

Another big vote for this stunning transport; I owned a Esoteric P-0s for a couple years.
(There was also a P-0s VUK model available a bit later that I did not upgrade to.)

There have been some great models from CEC, Metronome/Kalista, Zanden and Burmester mentioned here that I have heard multiple times for which I have great respect. I didn't see it mentioned however Oracle upper transports should be on a checklist to evaluate as well.

The Esoteric P-0s is a legendary transport that delivered some of the best CD playback I've ever heard over the last 20 years and through today.

It easily belongs in a top 2 or top 3 list IMHO. It's sophistication, battleship-like build quality, playback programmability, reference calibration for tracking and other adjustments were such that I don't recall seeing their equal at the time or since. The 2 boxes were extremely heavy and well-built. No doubt they would last a lifetime.

I regret having sold it as I'd love to have it around; it took an extra two shelves that I don't have room for and wish I did. The latest Grandioso stacks (P1/D1 and P1X/D1X and now the SE), the K-01X and Grandioso K1X single box players (and SE models) are even better transports (and they play SACD) however, there was something seductive about
pure RBCD when paired with the right external DAC that the P-0s delivered. If you wanted a vintage SOTA CD-only transport, this one belongs on the list to check out for sure.

 

[microstrip]

That is great to read. I think the Zanden Transport is excellent but its main advantage for me is simply that it has been designed for the Zanden DAC. (...)

Yes. IMO in this hobby when making such statements on our preferred we must consider the system. The Calypso/Kaslista was my choice with Metronome DAc's and Kondo KSL, but not with the Vivaldi DAC.

 

[SCAudiophile]

FYI, there was a statement somewhere on this thread and others about the ability to find the top Esoteric transport in other brands. Esoteric never supplied/sold their best transport assemblies in a given generation to other manufacturers on an OEM basis such as DCS (excellent brand, not casting any shade on them). The transports made available were excellent; they were one level or so removed from the top transport had at the time.

APL NWO CD/SACD players would be a special case; Alex P. started with a full Esoteric X-01 and modified power and output stages among other things if memory serves, that made for a great sounding alternative take on Esoteric's top 1-box player for a given generation.

 

[mtemur]

As for standalone transports...the only other besides the one you mention which I am intrigued about is the original legendary Esoteric P0 or P0s. Have you ever heard it?

I heard Esoteric transports like the one in the picture but I'm not sure if they were P0 or a lower model. I cannot make a comparison.

Oh, there are other candidates that are better made... Denon DP S1 (affectionately known as Moon Base Alpha). The chassis is cast in one piece and the subchassis cd mechanism is mounted on it (3 Hz)like turntable. Denon didn't care what the production cost, they wanted to make a statement.View attachment 144250
Transport 64lbs +dac 61lbs
View attachment 144251

I heard Denon transport with matching DAC, just like the one in the picture. Actually, it was offered to me, but by that time, I had already stopped listening to CDs. It sounds very good and is built like a tank, but it’s not like a CEC TL0.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I heard Esoteric transports like the one in the picture but I'm not sure if they were P0 or a lower model. I cannot make a comparison.


I heard Denon transport with matching DAC, just like the one in the picture. Actually, it was offered to me, but by that time, I had already stopped listening to CDs. It sounds very good and is built like a tank, but it’s not like a CEC TL0.

I prefer more machine construction quality that will still work in 30 years. Not $50 plastic Sanyo CD drives. But everyone has different tastes. JVC Victor CD Player XL 999 are excellent machines for CD transport, they developed XRCD K2 which was the first CD player with 24bit/128kz as far as I know.

 

[mtemur]

I prefer more machine construction quality that will still work in 30 years. Not $50 plastic Sanyo CD drives. But everyone has different tastes. JVC Victor CD Player XL 999 are excellent machines for CD transport, they developed XRCD K2 which was the first CD player with 24bit/128kz as far as I know.

Well, sound quality of that plastic "Sanyo CD drive" you're referring to kicks the a... of those "machine construction quality" (I don't know what that means) transports so hard that it's certainly not a matter of taste. It's more a matter of being exposed to CEC TL0 sound or not. If you have been familiar with TL0 you would know how well it's made and how good it sounds.

By the way, I also heard the Reimyo (JVC) 777 CD player, which features K2 (XRCD technology). It’s a very good CD player, but K2 is just a digital filter, not a DAC. I also heard a couple of different JVC 1000 amplifiers equipped with K2.

I don't buy the claim that Burmester invented belt drive CD transport. Everybody knows that it's CEC. Additionally Burmester is half belt driven.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Well sound quality of that plastic "Sanyo CD drive" you're referring to kicks the a... of those "machine construction quality" (I don't know what that means) transports so hard that it's certainly not a matter of taste. It's more a matter of being exposed to CEC TL0 sound or not. If you have been familiar with TL0 you would know how well it's made.

By the way, I also heard the Reimyo (JVC) 777 CD player, which features K2 (XRCD technology). It’s a very good CD player, but K2 is just a digital filter, not a DAC. I also heard a couple of different JVC 1000 amplifiers equipped with K2.

I also don't buy the claim that Burmester invented belt drive CD transport. Everybody knows that it's CEC.

burmester devolped that ,and cec copy it cheap. Burmester made 916 transport the CEC company did not even exist.year 1990 made 916 cd belt drive.

 

[Lagonda]

Oh, there are other candidates that are better made... Denon DP S1 (affectionately known as Moon Base Alpha). The chassis is cast in one piece and the subchassis cd mechanism is mounted on it (3 Hz)like turntable. Denon didn't care what the production cost, they wanted to make a statement.View attachment 144250
Transport 64lbs +dac 61lbs
View attachment 144251
Jvc victor xl 1000z they made the cd drive for denon dp s1
too
View attachment 144254

That JVC pro drive is the best i ever heard, i have a extra Victor machine just to make sure to have a spare drive, also have a couple of extra lasers. It's in my Krell KPS 25sc, i use that mostly as a dedicated drive these days.

 

[mtemur]

I shared my opinion based on actual listening experience with the CD transports I mentioned. I have seen them, listened to them, and, at times, compared them to other CD transports. This is not the same as simply sharing photos and advertisements from sources like Vintage Knob or Audio Database, with no real listening experience. The only experience pages like Vintage Knob can guarantee is wet dreams about audio equipment. I believe there are a few posts that fall into that category. In the end, it’s up to you to decide.

 

[LL21]

Well, sound quality of that plastic "Sanyo CD drive" you're referring to kicks the a... of those "machine construction quality" (I don't know what that means) transports so hard that it's certainly not a matter of taste. It's more a matter of being exposed to CEC TL0 sound or not. If you have been familiar with TL0 you would know how well it's made and how good it sounds.

By the way, I also heard the Reimyo (JVC) 777 CD player, which features K2 (XRCD technology). It’s a very good CD player, but K2 is just a digital filter, not a DAC. I also heard a couple of different JVC 1000 amplifiers equipped with K2.

I don't buy the claim that Burmester invented belt drive CD transport. Everybody knows that it's CEC. Additionally Burmester is half belt driven.

So funny that you mention that. I always built systems where I put as much as i could into the 'next level' element, and if I could not get to where I wanted to be on the major next step up in performance...i just sat on what I had for years. For example, I had CJ equipment, SF Guarneris...and a $50 Sanyo DVD player as source for probably 6-10 years...eventually as transport when I finally went up to the Zanden DAC.

And it always amused me how much the audio stores found it nuts and always tried to sell me an $800 transport or a $2000 transport...and when every once in a while I would acquiesce to a shoot out in their store...they just left me to my own devices having heard the difference (or large lack thereof). Ultimately, it was not until we went full 4-box Zanden that the transport made a big enough difference for me to say that is material and go for it (trade-in second hand of course!).

 

[Amir]

In fact, there’s no transport quite like the TL0.

If you’ve heard the CEC TL0 and don’t think it’s the best then there is something wrong with the setup. Try to find it.

100% agree

 

[Amir]

I shared my opinion based on actual listening experience with the CD transports I mentioned. I have seen them, listened to them, and, at times, compared them to other CD transports. This is not the same as simply sharing photos and advertisements from sources like Vintage Knob or Audio Database, with no real listening experience. The only experience pages like Vintage Knob can guarantee is wet dreams about audio equipment. I believe there are a few posts that fall into that category. In the end, it’s up to you to decide.

Your listening experience are trusted and CEC is far better than all other transports.

Technical specification of audio equipments has no relation to the sound.

 

[bonzo75]

So funny that you mention that. I always built systems where I put as much as i could into the 'next level' element, and if I could not get to where I wanted to be on the major next step up in performance...i just sat on what I had for years.

The problem with this approach is you stay only in one direction for years, therefore you aren’t just getting deltas on where you started as a beginner. the key is getting different exposures and changing direction unless it is assumed that initial exposure was the ideal

 

[mtemur]

So funny that you mention that. I always built systems where I put as much as i could into the 'next level' element, and if I could not get to where I wanted to be on the major next step up in performance...i just sat on what I had for years. For example, I had CJ equipment, SF Guarneris...and a $50 Sanyo DVD player as source for probably 6-10 years...eventually as transport when I finally went up to the Zanden DAC.

And it always amused me how much the audio stores found it nuts and always tried to sell me an $800 transport or a $2000 transport...and when every once in a while I would acquiesce to a shoot out in their store...they just left me to my own devices having heard the difference (or large lack thereof). Ultimately, it was not until we went full 4-box Zanden that the transport made a big enough difference for me to say that is material and go for it (trade-in second hand of course!).

I very well know four box Zanden transpot/DAC combo. Although it has Philips pro2 transport inside the main advantage is IIS output instead of S/PDIF and using tubes throughout. It sounds amazing. I remember that I mentioned my friend about a Stereophile review pointing high jitter and bad technical performance before buying his unit. It still sounds amazing after all those years.

 

[Amir]

CEC & TAD

 

[Kodak805]

While I was researching about CD transport, (I just want one.)
I happen to find interesting article in unpextected place - Lampizator’s old website. (Not the new one)
I just got here by random google search.

Little back ground story is - I was looking for CD transport for fun, so I find things from
Pro-ject, Audiolab, Cambridge and Primare.

Audiolab 6000cdt is the closest one that I want, but I want to check if there’s better one.
Primare DD35 looks cool too, then I find that this model description mentions good ol’ TEAC unit - 5020a-at to be precise.
(I think since Philips discontinues its cdt unit sector, Teac is the second best bet.)

Side story - ChiFi company called DENAFRIPS has a model named AVARTAR with Philips’s cdt unit.
Somehow they secure(?) 3000 NOS (yes, now there is NOS for Cdp) Philips’ units. Used to be $1200 now too many demand so they plan to increase to $1700.
I don’t know how come they find more NOS Philips stock after the first sold out.

Get back to the story line, I remember Teac 5020a in somewhere.
Yes, TASCAM CD series. Tascam used to specifically mention they use Teac 5020 for TASCAM 200 CD 200SB (discontinued).
Now they have CD200BT. The site doesn’t say it uses Teac 5020, but vaguely states all TASCAM CD uses the same Teac part. (So maybe same)

Long story short, I want to know more about Teac... then my google search brings me to old lampizator site.

VRDS-T1

VRDS Teac, Transport, Lampizator

lampizator.eu

CD_transport_DIY

CD transport, SP/DIF, DAC, digital cable, SAA7220p/B

lampizator.eu

I didn’t know lampizator has this much technology driven image. (Pleasant surprise)

The writer mentions couple very interesting points about Esoteric/Teac/Sony and some other brands.


According to the writer, THE WORLD BEST TRANSPORT was Spectral SDR-3000.


Honestly, I didn’t expect this name to come out. What a surprise.

This article is written decade ago, so many things are changed.

I miss good ol’ honest engineering that seems becoming more rare in today’s world.


PS. It’s old, but there are some interesting writings that might jog your memory lane.
I happen to like the name Lampizator more. Maybe next DAC?

Weiss Engineering Jason

JASON - Weiss Engineering

The JASON plays back CD:s in the most transparent way imaginable and at the same time supports the D/A converter for optimum playback quality.

weiss.ch

6moons audio reviews: Weiss Engineering Jason & Medea

 

[LL21]

The problem with this approach is you stay only in one direction for years, therefore you aren’t just getting deltas on where you started as a beginner. the key is getting different exposures and changing direction unless it is assumed that initial exposure was the ideal

Depends on whether I have ventured to try some level of equipments. I have. Not a lot. Not a lot of time. And frankly, I know what I like when I hear it. I spent 10 years listening to digital to upgrade from the $50 Daewoo or Samsung Whatever dvd player we had. Never did.

It took 20 minutes listening to a gold box I had never heard of before to take it home and bought it within 2 hours. The Zanden has stayed for 17 years. Some digital came in and out for fun shootouts, but stopping a few years ago.

Same for the original Guarneris and Wilson’s. After 14 years of listening to various systems and speakers, only the Arrakis and AG Trio G3 have made me think that they are materially better (for me). Just personal preference.

 

[LL21]

I very well know four box Zanden transpot/DAC combo. Although it has Philips pro2 transport inside the main advantage is IIS output instead of S/PDIF and using tubes throughout. It sounds amazing. I remember that I mentioned my friend about a Stereophile review pointing high jitter and bad technical performance before buying his unit. It still sounds amazing after all those years.

Agree!!