High End Passion and Craftsmanship For Sure . . . But Also Occasionally High Cost and Unreliable?

[andromedaaudio]

Exupgh12 are you obsessed with covid lol ?


Parts these days are extremely easy to find on the WWW usually it takes 3 days.
I use top of the line ETON SB acoustics Scanspeak .
All QC tested in the factory and designed by companies who are many many years in the bizz.
Caps .. resistors coils ? Next day delivery as many as you want .
Only thing that wasnt ready available in covid times where the Eton woofers

 

[exupgh12]

My question was, do you know what parts they use? Which cap, resistor, inductor in their crossover

No, but I guess I can ask my friend.
Obviously it’s not the same one that are used in on the M9, all ought they are from the same manufacturer.

 

[exupgh12]

So they could produce 10000 but not 20 additional? And small manufacturers could not find substitutes for them easily?

I would prefer to sell 10,020 on the higher price.

 

[exupgh12]

Exupg12 are you obsessed with covid lol ?

Parts these days are extremely easy to find on the WWW usually it takes 3 days

As of January 2025, several sectors, including pharmaceuticals, automotive, consumer electronics, and aerospace, are still experiencing the lingering effects of COVID-19-related supply chain disruptions. Global production levels have yet to return to their pre-pandemic state.

 

[bonzo75]

No, but I guess I can ask my friend.
Obviously it’s not the same one that are used in on the M9, all ought they are from the same manufacturer.

Exactly, I don’t know any user of a big name manufacturer who knows the parts. The argument is that because you are paying big, the parts must be good. A small manufacturer tells you exactly what goes in the crossover, you can discuss choice of transformer, capacitor, resistor, etc.

The only people who know are the service engineers for these products who will work for the distributor or country service centre. And there you get a lot of confidential stories.

Btw, I know the transformer supplier to a 50k plus amp brand. The amp manufacturer gets his second from top transformer model. The difference in price with the top model is only 500 euro. Not much of a difference if you are buying direct for one amp, but guess for a manufacturer managing costs that might be big.

the Cessaro top models used the TAD driver model that is one level lower than Leif uses in his.

 

[andromedaaudio]

As of January 2025, several sectors, including pharmaceuticals, automotive, consumer electronics, and aerospace, are still experiencing the lingering effects of COVID-19-related supply chain disruptions. Global production levels have yet to return to their pre-pandemic state.

Not in my business.
All workshops / factories run like normal.
No complaints , supply issues were fixed a couple of years ago .

Farmaceuticals are the problem.

 

[exupgh12]

Exactly, I don’t know any user of a big name manufacturer who knows the parts. The argument is that because you are paying big, the parts must be good. A small manufacturer tells you exactly what goes in the crossover, you can discuss choice of transformer, capacitor, resistor, etc.

The only people who know are the service engineers for these products who will work for the distributor or country service centre. And there you get a lot of confidential stories.

Btw, I know the transformer supplier to a 50k plus amp brand. The amp manufacturer gets his second from top transformer model. The difference in price with the top model is only 500 euro. Not much of a difference if you are buying direct for one amp, but guess for a manufacturer managing costs that might be big.

the Cessaro top models used the TAD driver model that is one level lower than Leif uses in his.

Not entirely true

Copy past from Magico website

All crossover parts are made by the Raimund Mundorf Company in Cologne, Germany. The outstanding sonic performance of the MCap, MCap-Supreme, and MCap-Supreme Silver, Gold and oil capacitors is achieved through a unique combination of advanced technologies - most notably “induction-free winding,” whereby two capacitor windings are interleaved so that their inductances are effectively cancelled.

The inductors are made with extremely pure oxygen-free copper foil and constructed so that the windings are directly on top of one another, bringing them significantly closer to the theoretical electrical ideal.

All you need is to look for the information.

With all the respect, just because big name manufacturer produces something, it doesn’t say they skimp on you.

Honestly what is the most expensive part in speaker like Lorenzo, it’s the finish not parts.

Clear Audio Statement manufactured by big company, and it’s better then the exotic Davinci Gabriel ( I know the sound of both very well).

Small companies might lack the resources for research and development, something enthusiasm can’t always replace.

 

[bonzo75]

You think Mundorf would have sale 20 capacitors to small audio manufacturers if one of the bigger manufacturer would have pay for 10,000 of those capacitors 5, 10, or 20 times their price cause they need them?

This is a good example, btw. Mundorf is not the best cap, but is good and reliable for consistent large scale production. A small manufacturer can more easily add Duelund cast, Jupiter, or quality NOS caps. Even some industrial grade might be good I don’t know

Hardly know any big name manufacturer designing around quality tubes. They are forced to design on shugang, JJ, Psvane, KT150/120/88 that is more easily available on a large scale

 

[bonzo75]

As of January 2025, several sectors, including pharmaceuticals, automotive, consumer electronics, and aerospace, are still experiencing the lingering effects of COVID-19-related supply chain disruptions. Global production levels have yet to return to their pre-pandemic state.

I am sure Glaxo, General Motors, and Boeing have problems that small audio manufacturers don't

 

[andromedaaudio]

Its mostly overpriced marketing

Mundorf Duelund.......... been there done that , these days i use 12 dollar USD caps 10 dollar coils

 

[andromedaaudio]

Thats how i can keep prices low , even the latest model with 11 inch sidefirng woofer i can keep under 10 K consumer price in a shop with the regular mid .

No Bullshit audio

 

[andromedaaudio]

I am sure Glaxo, General Motors, and Boeing have problems that small audio manufacturers don't

BOEING is terrible .
I have been a mechanic for over 25 years working in a factory , and these days im a supervisor internationally ive seen both sides
You know what the problems is ,,,,,,,,,, managers.... some even manage to screw up a whole company in the short time they fullfill a position

 

[Argonaut]

Thats how i can keep prices low , even the latest model with 11 inch sidefirng woofer i can keep under 10 K consumer price in a shop with the regular mid .

No Bullshit audio

I am curious … Have you actually sold any of your speakers on a commercial basis ? Just that you seem to have rather a lot to say on this topic … As a commercial speaker manufacturer ? According to your profile !

 

[bonzo75]

Not entirely true

Copy past from Magico website

All crossover parts are made by the Raimund Mundorf Company in Cologne, Germany. The outstanding sonic performance of the MCap, MCap-Supreme, and MCap-Supreme Silver, Gold and oil capacitors is achieved through a unique combination of advanced technologies - most notably “induction-free winding,” whereby two capacitor windings are interleaved so that their inductances are effectively cancelled.

The inductors are made with extremely pure oxygen-free copper foil and constructed so that the windings are directly on top of one another, bringing them significantly closer to the theoretical electrical ideal.

All you need is to look for the information.

With all the respect, just because big name manufacturer produces something, it doesn’t say they skimp on you.

Honestly what is the most expensive part in speaker like Lorenzo, it’s the finish not parts.

Clear Audio Statement manufactured by big company, and it’s better then the exotic Davinci Gabriel ( I know the sound of both very well).

Small companies might lack the resources for research and development, something enthusiasm can’t always replace.

Ok, so Magico is publishing - so they are indeed using Mundorf - interesting that for so much money you only get Mundorf. Why do you think this is not skimping, or better than Audyn, Jupiter, Duelund, and some vintage caps? Apart from not costing more than Duelund.

I have no idea about Lorenzo and Gabriel, not companies I have looked at. I did not say 100% small manufacturer population will all be good - like everything in audio good things are 5%, 95% is to be filtered through.

To my original point - while Magico is publishing crossovers, I doubt most of the users of Wilson, Focal, etc or amps liek Dagostino, Gryphon, and others know what the components going into their equipment

 

[exupgh12]

Ok, so Magico is publishing - so they are indeed using Mundorf - interesting that for so much money you only get Mundorf. Why do you think this is not skimping, or better than Audyn, Jupiter, Duelund, and some vintage caps? Apart from not costing more than Duelund.

I have no idea about Lorenzo and Gabriel, not companies I have looked at. I did not say 100% small manufacturer population will all be good - like everything in audio good things are 5%, 95% is to be filtered through.

To my original point - while Magico is publishing crossovers, I doubt most of the users of Wilson, Focal, etc or amps liek Dagostino, Gryphon, and others know what the components going into their equipment

Why don’t other manufacturers publish details about the internal components of their products? The reason often lies in concerns over customer perception. Many high-end audio products, even from prestigious companies, perform poorly in objective measurements and standardized tests. Just take a look at tests like Spinorama or other widely published measurement results—some well-regarded brands don’t fare as well as their reputation suggests.

Interestingly, in most cases , the most expensive aspect of 99% of audio equipment isn’t the internal components but the external finish. Manufacturers invest heavily in aesthetics rather than prioritizing superior internal parts.

This raises the question: are premium components like Audyn, Duelund, or Vishay capacitors truly necessary to achieve excellent performance? Or can companies like Magico, which uses components like lesser names like Mundorf capacitors, deliver comparable or superior results without relying on such esoteric choices?

What sets Magico apart is its transparency. The company not only publishes measurements but also provides details about its internal components, showing a commitment to accountability and engineering precision. So far, their approach has delivered outstanding results, consistently placing them among the very best in the high-end audio industry.

 

[exupgh12]

I am sure Glaxo, General Motors, and Boeing have problems that small audio manufacturers don't

While it’s true that large corporations like GlaxoSmithKline, General Motors, and Boeing have faced significant supply chain challenges due to the COVID-19 pandemic, it’s a misconception to assume that small audio manufacturers have been exempt from these issues. In fact, the Professional Audio Manufacturers Alliance (PAMA) conducted a survey in November 2024 revealing that approximately 86% of professional audio manufacturers reported moderate to major impacts from pandemic-induced supply chain disruptions, particularly concerning semiconductor shortages.

PAMA Surveys Supply Chain Disruption - Mixonline

The pandemic may be in the rearview mirror, but the disruption to supply chains lingers, according to a new survey by the Professional Audio Manufacturers Alliance (PAMA) of its member companies.

www.mixonline.com

These disruptions have led to backorders, extended lead times, and increased costs across the industry. Manufacturers have had to adapt by redesigning products to accommodate available components, increasing inventory levels, and, in some cases, reshoring production to mitigate delays. For example, companies like RF Venue have invested in in-house manufacturing to regain control over production timelines.

Therefore, it’s inaccurate to suggest that small audio manufacturers have been unaffected by the same supply chain challenges confronting larger corporations. The pandemic’s impact on global supply chains has been pervasive, affecting businesses of all sizes across various industries.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Its all about looks/ construction these days . . sound is secondary .
BS industry lol

As matter of fact a Ferrari F8 tributo both looks and sounds better then most gear out there .
And with this you actually do impress people not like some amp sitting at home.

 

[bonzo75]

While it’s true that large corporations like GlaxoSmithKline, General Motors, and Boeing have faced significant supply chain challenges due to the COVID-19 pandemic, it’s a misconception to assume that small audio manufacturers have been exempt from these issues. In fact, the Professional Audio Manufacturers Alliance (PAMA) conducted a survey in November 2024 revealing that approximately 86% of professional audio manufacturers reported moderate to major impacts from pandemic-induced supply chain disruptions, particularly concerning semiconductor shortages.

Lol. I doubt any of the small manufacturers fed back to PAMA.

 

[bonzo75]

What sets Magico apart is its transparency.

It's good Magico is transparent.

Why don’t other manufacturers publish details about the internal components of their products?

Correction, why don't other "big manufacturers". With small manufacturers you can discuss and get full transparency and tailoring.

This raises the question: are premium components like Audyn, Duelund, or Vishay capacitors truly necessary to achieve excellent performance? Or can companies like Magico, which uses components like lesser names like Mundorf capacitors, deliver comparable or superior results without relying on such esoteric choices?

This is a discussion like any other, which is the best cartridge or TT or amp? Depends on the audio maturity/knowledge of the audiophile. Some want the dealer to set up the whole system, some like to choose core components but leave the Analog set up to the dealer, some want control over their set up to adjust VTA, SRA, speaker positioning, etc. Similarly, you can order an off the shelf amp, or you can audition an amp, roll some internal components to your spec, or confirm through your research that the small manufacturer you have chosen has done his homework.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Look at the fairly simple internals of the best solid state out there (who cares about machining / construction / carbon ) sound is what matters
Anyone has a guess ??