High-Performance Stereo With Stock Power Cords?

[miniguy]

See number 9. Why are allowing manufacturers to take over this forum?

This thread belongs in the Manufacturer’s Forum and should have been moved there long ago. Where is the moderator?

 

[Al M.]

See number 9. Why are allowing manufacturers to take over this forum?

I don't see any harm here. The OP posed a question that is legitimate, I was happy to give my opinion on the subject, and I have no intentions to buy power cables from the OP.

 

[Ron Resnick]

See number 9. Why are allowing manufacturers to take over this forum?

They're not. Merely observing as a regular member to me you're frequently trying just to get in off-topic digs.

Why is this?

 

[Ron Resnick]

This thread belongs in the Manufacturer’s Forum and should have been moved there long ago. Where is the moderator?

I perceive the opening topic as a generic think piece. Speaking as a perfectly regular member I do not see the basis for your complaint.

 

[tima]

Do you feel Ted’s description of desirable audio attributes is at odds with your concept of live acoustic music?

A stereo that is highly dynamic with controlled low frequencies, extended high frequencies, and a massive layered holographic sound stage that changes scale with recordings from immediate with focused presence, to wraparound envelopment and all points in between

I come at this from what I hear in the music I enjoy not from a list of audiophile attributes that comes across as marketing-speak rather what one might hear from a concert goer. I don't know what is meant by the modifiers 'controlled' and 'extended' in this context. Leaving a live performance, I've never thought to myself "wow, tonight the orchestra really controlled the low frquencies."

While it can be an effect of stereo to a limited degree, I do not experience a "massive holographic sound stage" in a concert hall. I know instruments and where sound comes from. If I close my eyes in the concert hall I hear an orchestra in a hall.

Music is dynamic. Live music has a subtle dynamic that can be reproduced by a stereo to a degree. Equally or more important important than dynamic range is the size of the steps, the incremental difference between dynamic states. Small variation in dynamic steps. -- moreso, e.g. than ppp to pp -- is a sign of. vivacity, of lifelikeness in reproduction.

acoustic music can be and is often flawed from my experience. Venue acoustics and seat location have a huge impact and often with negative effects on the musical experience. Maybe I’m addicted to the more close miked sound of recordings. For example, at a recent violin concerto performance, I felt the soloist was swallowed by the orchestra. The balance was off at least from our seats. It was pretty bad.

Acoustic music can be flawed but not in the way stereo reproduction can be flawed. Musicians play their instruments and the performance you are at is what it is for you at your location. Some musicians and performances are better than others. I don't know if that is a flaw of acoustic music. But without it, there is no guide to what your reproduction is a reproduction of.

The relation of the soloist to the orchestral collective is interesting. Traditionally it was the orchestra that began a concerto and set the pace and phrasing for the soloist. That changed with Beethoven's 4th Piano Concerto. That piece broke with tradition, beginning not with the orchestra but with the piano. Its opening bars are a tiny hymn with a subtle genius that places the soloist (the hero) on an equal footing with the authority of the collective. Sometimes the conductor is unwilling to take yoke of the soloist's phrasing and thus this tug-of-war yields an unbalanced performance.

 

[tima]

Speaking as a perfectly regular member I not see the basis for your complaint.

this is mythic.

 

[treitz3]

I come at this from what I hear in the music I enjoy not from a list of audiophile attributes that comes across as marketing-speak rather what one might hear from a concert goer. I don't know what is meant by the modifiers 'controlled' and 'extended' in this context. Leaving a live performance, I've never thought to myself "wow, tonight the orchestra really controlled the low frquencies."

While it can be an effect of stereo to a limited degree, I do not experience a "massive holographic sound stage" in a concert hall. I know instruments and where sound comes from. If I close my eyes in the concert hall I hear an orchestra in a hall.

Music is dynamic. Live music has a subtle dynamic that can be reproduced by a stereo to a degree. Equally or more important important than dynamic range is the size of the steps, the incremental difference between dynamic states. Small variation in dynamic steps. -- moreso, e.g. than ppp to pp -- is a sign of. vivacity, of lifelikeness in reproduction.

Me thinks that maybe we are talking about differing types of music when describing what we want to hear as listeners. If we are to take a small ensemble, unamplified and listen live, then sit back in our respective listening rooms? We would have one set of criteria. Much like one that you have mentioned above.

But if we are to do the same thing with a big band or electronica? There is a whole other set of expectations that makes the aforementioned listening criteria void, no?

Your seat position whilst listening to a big band would be wide and expansive, if you were sitting front row, dead center. At the same time, whilst at home listening, you would want (or at least I think folks would prefer) to have that same wide and expansive (or "massive holographic sound stage") reproduced at home.

Tom

 

[miniguy]

this is mythic.

At first I thought about responding to Ron but then realized his reply to me didn’t deserve a response.

 

[Holmz]

At first I thought about responding to Ron but then realized his reply to me didn’t deserve a response.

The stuff has to be peddled somewhere, and the manufacturers probably pay for some of the forum costs.

And the industry as a whole, thrives on these tweeks with a totally unknown efficacy and a healthy amount of markup.

What did you expect @miniguy ?

 

[tima]

Me thinks that maybe we are talking about differing types of music when describing what we want to hear as listeners. If we are to take a small ensemble, unamplified and listen live, then sit back in our respective listening rooms? We would have one set of criteria. Much like one that you have mentioned above.

But if we are to do the same thing with a big band or electronica? There is a whole other set of expectations that makes the aforementioned listening criteria void, no?

Your seat position whilst listening to a big band would be wide and expansive, if you were sitting front row, dead center. At the same time, whilst at home listening, you would want (or at least I think folks would prefer) to have that same wide and expansive (or "massive holographic sound stage") reproduced at home.

Tom

Electronica I listen to, but it is not a reference as it is amplified and not acoustic.

I don't know if live big band is holographic any more than live orchestral, which in my experience is not. I rarely have that experience.

 

[miniguy]

The stuff has to be peddled somewhere, and the manufacturers probably pay for some of the forum costs.

And the industry as a whole, thrives on these tweeks with a totally unknown efficacy and a healthy amount of markup.

What did you expect @miniguy ?

Maybe a little less shameless pandering masquerading as a sincere attempt to aid in our understanding of the audiophile world.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Maybe a little less shameless pandering masquerading as a sincere attempt to aid in our understanding of the audiophile world.

I don't disagree.

WBF is and will always remain primarily a hobbyist forum for hobbyists. I recognize that Steve and I muddied the waters a bit by bringing on advertisers several years ago.

I also believe there is a collateral benefit to hobbyist members because the direct involvement on WBF of manufacturers, distributors and dealers facilitates communication and transparency with consumers, and encourages the cultivation of active brand user groups which otherwise might not exist.

Manufacturers, distributors and dealers who advertise on WBF understand that even though they pay for the right to advertise, their involvement here is a privilege and not a right. Advertisers have understood this, and, almost without exception, have been nuanced and subtle in their marketing and promotional activities, and have been respectful to all hobbyist members. This Steve and I expect and demand.

This is the traditional low-key culture of advertisers on WBF. We will not allow this culture to change.

 

[miniguy]

Advertisers have understood this, and, almost without exception, have been nuanced and subtle in their marketing and promotional activities

Denney is the exception.

 

[tima]

Manufacturers, distributors and dealers who advertise on WBF understand that even though they pay for the right to advertise, their involvement here is a privilege and not a right. Advertisers have understood this, and, almost without exception, have been nuanced and subtle in their marketing and promotional activities, and have been respectful to all hobbyist members.

almost ...

 

[Balle Clorin]

You’re making baseless claims. Our fuses are rated to blow on the safe side of industry standards. We sell over 10,000 fuses annually with a money-back guarantee—that’s $5 million plus worth of fuses every year. Almost no one sends them back, but when they do—even if they specify the wrong value or choose a fast-blow fuse when they needed a slow-blow fuse— or in the off chance they do not complement their system, they get a full refund, no questions asked. If our fuse’s specifications are not right for your system, you get your money back.
To my knowledge, we’re the only audio fuse company that offers a no-risk, 30-day money-back guarantee. That you doubt our fuses? Well, I’d love to see your system—I think I have a very good idea of what it might look like. Have a nice weekend!

10 000 fuses, Impressive that you are able to find so many people to fool every year..but people believe in astrology too so , I guess some of them must be into hi-fi too

 

[Rensselaer]

I don't disagree.

WBF is and will always remain primarily a hobbyist forum for hobbyists. I recognize that Steve and I muddied the waters a bit by bringing on advertisers several years ago.

I also believe there is a collateral benefit to hobbyist members because the direct involvement on WBF of manufacturers, distributors and dealers facilitates communication and transparency with consumers, and encourages the cultivation of active brand user groups which otherwise might not exist.

Manufacturers, distributors and dealers who advertise on WBF understand that even though they pay for the right to advertise, their involvement here is a privilege and not a right. Advertisers have understood this, and, almost without exception, have been nuanced and subtle in their marketing and promotional activities, and have been respectful to all hobbyist members. This Steve and I expect and demand.

This is the traditional low-key culture of advertisers on WBF. We will not allow this culture to change.

I am glad to see you finally admit that this website has sold out.

I joined to learn from those with the greatest experience with the finest music reproduction systems ever devised, not to read blatant advertising dressed up as informative facts.

I realise now that you are in this not for altruistic reasons but to make money, but even so there should have been a way to keep an equal mix of authentic bias-free information in there. Lately, every thread seems to have been started, and most of the responses provided by, just one manufacturer.

If you needed more money why not ask those like me to pay an annual subscription to get access to a part of the website that would be free of commercials ( not free of manufacturers as long as on that part of the website they keep their discussions to the subject and only what their personal experience in that subject has taught them). Peer review of a subject is meaningless if biased commercial interest is allowed to dilute/muddy that knowledge so that none of it can be relied upon.

I stopped viewing Sound Practices, Stereophile, Hi-Fi News and Record Review, TAS and the rest when they sold out and no longer could be trusted to provide truthful information. It is now time to leave this forum as well. Please remove all of my personal information from your records and disconnect me from WBF.

 

[Lagonda]

The stuff has to be peddled somewhere, and the manufacturers probably pay for some of the forum costs.

And the industry as a whole, thrives on these tweeks with a totally unknown efficacy and a healthy amount of markup.

What did you expect @miniguy ?

I would guess WBF is actually turning a decent profit at this time, and a good way for promoting the other endeavors of the owners. Good for them ! Regular member posts have probably gone down somewhat in the process of commercialization, but WBF is still the most interesting place to learn and talk about audio. Manufacturers come and go, the ones being most aggressive in their initial introduction, do not normally last that long. The only ones that seem to have a lasting effect, are the ones that actually participate in a variety of threads on a regular basis, not just the ones cherry picked for promotion.

 

[Argonaut]

I stopped viewing Sound Practices, Stereophile, Hi-Fi News and Record Review, TAS and the rest when they sold out, now I guess it’s time to leave this forum as well. Please remove all of my personal information from your records and disconnect me from WBF.

Well … That would be a shame and a loss to the hobbyist community within the forum. Perhaps you might fly a holding pattern for a little while and see how this Denney thing plays out ! In the meantime I would recommend the ignore function as I have , it does help ameliorate the onslaught to a degree.

 

[Lagonda]

I am glad to see you finally admit that this website has sold out.

I joined to learn from those with the greatest experience with the finest music reproduction systems ever devised, not to read blatant advertising dressed up as informative facts.

I realise now that you are in this not for altruistic reasons but to make money, but even so there should have been a way to keep an equal mix of authentic bias-free information in there. Lately, every thread seems to have been started, and most of the responses provided by, just one manufacturer.

If you needed more money why not ask those like me to pay an annual subscription to get access to a part of the website that would be free of commercials ( not free of manufacturers as long as on that part of the website they keep their discussions to the subject and only what their personal experience in that subject has taught them). Peer review of a subject is meaningless if biased commercial interest is allowed to dilute/muddy that knowledge so that none of it can be relied upon.

I stopped viewing Sound Practices, Stereophile, Hi-Fi News and Record Review, TAS and the rest when they sold out and no longer could be trusted to provide truthful information. It is now time to leave this forum as well. Please remove all of my personal information from your records and disconnect me from WBF.

Why not simply stay away from threads that are obvious attempts at advertising ? They are easy to spot. You will never see me participating in Taiko or Lampi threads or threads describing the wonderful properties of footers.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I m still waiting for Ted starting a thread on speaker cables .