Impressed with recent Wilson XVX audition - is there anythings that presents that kind of detail without sounding analytical?

[Zeotrope]

It doesn't matter that I love XVX also. Not liking Nagra on Wilson is a totally legitimate preference.

Please don't tell me you're arguing that if an audiophile doesn't like your favorite amp and speaker combination there's something wrong with him/her?

Not at all. See my point above this one.
I was trying to make the point that we all hear differently, just like everyone sees colors differently.

 

[Al M.]

I disagree that the XVX need a large room. Framer’s room is not large. It’s all how the room acoustics are setup and how the speakers are placed and adjusted.

Large speakers need large rooms, I agree with Alrainbow. I don’t care about Fremer's room; as I see it, it's all wrong.

 

[jeff1225]

I don’t know your timeline but the NW is best experienced after the 4th of July when sunshine is the norm and pleasant temps through September. If you love rain, come anytime we have plenty.

Having lived in Seattle for 5 years, I can safely say that July 4th though September the PNW is the most beautiful place in the world.

 

[Zeotrope]

Large speakers need large rooms, I agree with Alrainbow. I don’t care about Fremer's room; as I see it, it's all wrong.

I would never say someone whose life and career is focused on high end audio’s room is “all wrong”. But we all have an opinion.

Horns are definitely the exception- because the focus the sound, and if they are time aligned to the listening position, you certainly can use large horns in small rooms (assuming they fit!).

 

[Al M.]

I would never say someone whose life and career is focused on high end audio’s room is “all wrong”. But we all have an opinion.

Horns are definitely the exception- because the focus the sound, and if they are time aligned to the listening position, you certainly can use large horns in small rooms (assuming they fit!).

We all have an opinion, indeed. Yes, the directionality of horns helps. In my view, horns would also be the only option for larger speakers in my just 12 feet wide room (as for cone speakers, my monitor/subwoofer set is perfect for it).

 

[Zeotrope]

We all have an opinion, indeed. Yes, the directionality of horns helps. That would also be the only option in my view for larger speakers in my just 12 feet wide room (as for cone speakers, my monitor/subwoofer set is perfect for it).

Indeed: my room is only 12’ x 13’ (approx.). I went with medium sized horns and an active TL sub. Can’t get a horn to go below ~60Hz without a large space. My horns are about 18” wide x 72” tall.

 

[jbrrp1]

Having lived in Seattle for 5 years, I can safely say that July 4th though September the PNW is the most beautiful place in the world.

My college roommate and best friend grew up in Seattle and moved back there after 12 years in the Midwest. Apparently, I bring "good weather luck" when I visit the area, because it always gets sunny. He once remarked to me how he cannot believe I haven't moved there yet, given how beautiful it is whenever I'm there. I guess I'm too much a Midwest boy...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Having lived in Seattle for 5 years, I can safely say that July 4th though September the PNW is the most beautiful place in the world.

when we don't get the forest fire smoke drifting in from the east, south or north. we even get it from Russia sometimes. which depends on whether we have an on shore flow, or off shore flow to the wind especially when things dry out in August and September.

but otherwise it's heavenly.

 

[Zeotrope]

Not the XVX but nice feedback from the Nagra/Wilson (Alexia V) room at the Montreal Audio Show last week:

The room was consistently abuzz during the three-day weekend, and the natural flow of traffic led people right between the loudspeakers and the listeners, so getting a clear line of listening with the system was the music-listening equivalent of a spotty internet connection. But still! The sound that came through during the interludes in foot traffic, from a cross-section of blues and jazz cuts, was sublime, sweet and sophisticated, with levels of touch, microdynamics, texture, color, veracity, and musical rightness that made me mutter under my breath, "Oh please let me be the Alternate Rob who gets to own this system!

(Keep in mind the prices quoted are in CAD, not in USD.)

Filtronique: Nagra, Wilson Audio, Modulum , Siltech

Remember in my first post when I said "How cool it would be if I'd turned into Alternate Rob with a half-million dollar system waiting for him at home?" Well, the system I encountered in one of Filtronique's rooms would fit the bill nicely.

www.stereophile.com

 

[andromedaaudio]

So my question is, for those that have heard that speaker, is there anything else on the market that comes close to that realistic instrument detail/tone/dimensionality without sounding cold and analytical? Marten, Rockport, Kharma Veyron series or something else?

@ Zeotrope
The topic starter asked this question and we gave some suggestions .
If 5 magazines said the XVX / Nagra set up in munich 22 was the best / one of the best of the show then it proves to me the fact that it was a good decision to never read them , since we have nothing in common
Besides the fact that you defend Wilson and Nagra , did you hear any of the top end models of the other brands mentioned and if so what did you think ?

 

[metaphacts]

This observation can only mean one thing. The XVX were simply not set up properly for you. It is well known that the Wilsons are exquisitely sensitive to the ear height of the listener. Wilson's set-up instructions are exceedingly precise for this important parameter. That is why larger Wilsons often elicit a broad range of reactions at a show; and can range from "wowza" to "they suck". The greatest reason for this disparity is incorrect set up and failure of the speakers to match the ear height of the listener. There is no way a properly set pair of XVX will render an image of vocals coming from someplace in the stratosphere. Something is very wrong if that was your experience. Too bad. If you have the opportunity to visit a dealer who might be motivated and willing, try to see if they might invest in the time to set up the speaker modules for you specifically. It might well be worth the trouble and could be mutually productive.

With a properly set up XVX, the image is not too tall, and certainly not 8 ft for a voice. In order of the set up process, the following are all possibilities 1) Poor choice of the Zone of Neutrality/ Listening Position 2) Improperly aligned modules relative to the listening distance/ ear height 3) Shall we say "creativity" in leveling - you don't set an XVX off vertical and you definitely do not rake it and 4) the most common culprit - the rear firing tweeter set with too high an output.

 

[marty]

Having lived in Seattle for 5 years, I can safely say that July 4th though September the PNW is the most beautiful place in the world.

No argument from me based on several visits to Seattle when my daughter lived there for a few years a while ago. But for Sept/Oct, my vote would be the NE.



The difference is the winter, when Seattle is still quite nice whereas I just want to get the hell out of Dodge and go to the beach. Maybe some place like this.....

 

[Skanda]

With a properly set up XVX, the image is not too tall, and certainly not 8 ft for a voice. In order of the set up process, the following are all possibilities 1) Poor choice of the Zone of Neutrality/ Listening Position 2) Improperly aligned modules relative to the listening distance/ ear height 3) Shall we say "creativity" in leveling - you don't set an XVX off vertical and you definitely do not rake it and 4) the most common culprit - the rear firing tweeter set with too high an output.

i had the pleasure of hearing the XVX with dag monos+pre and a berkley dac at Innovative in NYC in their big ~perfectly~ set up room. I'm not sure what the roon endpoint was but I enjoyed that listen greatly. The imaging is what took me back more than anything else and for someone who has mostly preferred monitors, the XVX not only showed me what a BIG speaker can do but it put me on the chase to get a BIG speaker. I simply cannot unhear that experience.

in my NYC system i have magico m2's which are proportional and the right size for the room. they can image as well as the xvx _for that room_. in my second system, i recently set up diesis roma's with perlisten d212s subs. this room is a loft so there is a lot of airspace to activate as well and i'm able to get imaging as big as i heard on the xvx. i personally love the sound and feel of an 8ft tall voice etc - my NYC system does not do that but the diesis system does. however, I suspect is its the subwoofers that are allowing for that mega staging.

going back to op's original qustion - i think it is very possible to get detail without being analytical. while i don't have an xvx or much experience with an xvx i was able to get that kind of sound in both systems. my personal reccomendations would be to look at r2r dacs, a taiko extreme if you do digital/streaming - it added alot of fullness and detail into my rig and unforunately i only have it in the nyc rig. i think subwoofers can help develop that sense of fullness in the ground floor which lets a speaker really breathe and lean away from thin/analytical. the amp speaker combo is a tough one to give general advice on...you could get a full sounding speaker with a fast clean amp or get a warm amp with a fast/clean speaker both choices have advantages. in NYC i have a soulution 721 paired with a symphonic line kraft - i think many people would suspect magico and soulution together would sound thin and detailed but the M series, the kraft, maybe the dac+taiko idk really prevent that. the second system is a CH I1 paired with diesis. I am floored by how good this ch integrated sounds - not thin or light at all: just clean and glowing to these ears

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mt. Rainier in the fall does not suck. 90 miles from Seattle.

 

[marty]

Mt. Rainier in the fall does not suck. 90 miles from Seattle.

View attachment 107206

C'mon, man. Mountains? That's cheating!

 

[microstrip]

Large speakers need large rooms, I agree with Alrainbow. I don’t care about Fremer's room; as I see it, it's all wrong.

Al. M,

Have you been listening there? I do not know the exact dimensions of his room, it looks cramped but at some time I had great sound in a 12 x 17 feet room with enormous old SoundLab A1's !

 

[Mike Lavigne]

C'mon, man. Mountains? That's cheating!

not mountains. the mountain.

 

[Al M.]

Al. M,

Have you been listening there? I do not know the exact dimensions of his room, it looks cramped but at some time I had great sound in a 12 x 17 feet room with enormous old SoundLab A1's !

Electrostatic speakers like the SoundLabs have a different radiation patten than cone speakers. They elicit much less sidewall reflections, which can be an advantage in a narrower room. Also, due to all frequencies coming just from one membrane in SoundLab speakers, coherence issues from sitting close to the speakers are a non-issue. I have heard SoundLab speakers in a not so large room, but sitting very much upclose, near field that is, and it sounded great.

So no, I don't think you can compare that with putting Wilsons or other larger cone speakers into a rather small space.

 

[thedudeabides]

all I can do is stay home and listen to what I have.

Good for you. If you are generally happy with what you have, why bother upgrading? Enjoying the music is the reason for this hobby and you do not need to be gearcentrix to achieve that. Go take a really nice family vacation that you (and others) will remember for the rest your lives.

 

[microstrip]

Electrostatic speakers like the SoundLabs have a different radiation patten than cone speakers. They elicit much less sidewall reflections, which can be an advantage in a narrower room. Also, due to all frequencies coming just from one membrane in SoundLab speakers, coherence issues from sitting close to the speakers are a non-issue. I have heard SoundLab speakers in a not so large room, but sitting very much upclose, near field that is, and it sounded great.

So no, I don't think you can compare that with putting Wilsons or other larger cone speakers into a rather small space.

Large planars are intrinsically incoherent - the path from center of the speaker to the bottom or top differs for an appreciable fraction of the wavelength in the middle frequencies.

I currently enjoy a lot the SoundLab A1Px 's , but surely they do not deliver me the realism of the soundstage of the XLF's or even of Quad ESL63.