Impressed with recent Wilson XVX audition - is there anythings that presents that kind of detail without sounding analytical?

[chuck]

out of curiousity did you like them at both or either? Was the gear different?

I have always liked the big Wilsons, having owned X2S2s and XLFs. I liked the JS Audio setup better because it had my amp, Boulder 3060, rather than D'Agostino Momentums that were in the Audio Salon rig. The Boulder got more out of the XVXs, particularly on big orchestral music, and the system was very impressive.

 

[Nuprin]

i have a set of pristine EA MicroOne's in my hallway outside my room. were owned by my now deceased brother in law. back a few years, i set EA MicroOne's up at a couple of shows for the manufacturer. remarkable speaker value. they do more right than many much more expensive speakers. i'm sure they do great for you.

it would be fun for me to demonstrate to you how the MM7 level of Evolution Acoustics can do rendering a realistic Double Bass or Cello. my favorite music to listen to is string quartet vinyl. prior to owning Evolutions i owned, among others, Kharma Exquisite 1D's. they could do justice to great recordings too. but not on the scale of the MM7's. my room is 21' x 29' x 11'. and it can scale. yet intimate music stays intimate. soundstage and instrument size depends on the recording, in my room it's not everything big or small. the room is big enough that any size can be created. there are a number of very life like recordings where the realism pushes the suspension of disbelief with the MM7's.

my very strong opinion is that when you get to the MM7----XVX----big Gobel level of speakers (there are other suspects for sure)............the room, the system, the set-up and sweat equity put into system tuning, are much larger factors than which speaker you choose. you hear the vision of the person behind the room. and some large speakers are almost prohibitively challenging to set up. you buy the guy who sells it to you as much as the speaker. unless you know how to do it yourself. or are willing to take a decade or so to learn how to do it.

not sure how you heard the XVX's. at a show? at a dealer? at a friends?

i've only heard them one time so far, early on a Friday at Axpona a couple of years ago, with D'Ag electronics and on that day at that hour they were a mess. so i dismissed any sort of judgement about that system. got caught up in other rooms and never made it back to that room. they likely sorted it out somehow later i would expect. enough people are impressed that there has to be quality.

not sure where you live, but if you are ever in the Seattle area you are welcome to hear my MM7's.

Thank you. Certainly appreciate the offer and if the opportunity and time presents itself in the future, I would love to make a trip up to the northwest.

 

[Nuprin]

If you visit Mike in Seattle, come on down to Portland where I can offer you some time listening to Alsyvox Botticelli and Bayz Counterpoint, even Diesis Roma. A good sampling in one location of several outstanding speakers, all a bit different could be ear-opening experience to broaden your exposure. Also Pilium electronics IMHO much more liquid and musical sounding than Dagostino.

Thank you for the generous offer. If I ever make it all the way out to Seattle, I would certainly plan to stop by Portland. Sadly I've never visited the Northwest and it's one of the top destinations on my list in the US.

 

[Sampajanna]

I don't see how a highly resolving speaker can be forgiving -- of electronics, room acoustics or otherwise. The high resolution will almost by definition also expose flaws in the system.

I suspect the issue is with my poorly-articulated recommendation, and not with the resolving power of Marten speakers. Your point is a good one and true. I can hear when a tube is off in my Horizon dac and even differences in cables. But I guess what I meant was that Marten are like the Horizon, lots of tube configurations and many are better than others, but none sound terrible. That is perhaps a better articulation of my point, though perhaps still not perfect.

 

[nirodha]

so all I can do is stay home and listen to what I have.

This should be a source of JOY . In the end, this is what it is all about.

 

[Zeotrope]

There are many on there level and some better in some ways.
they are very Large and require a very large room to reach there potential
the smaller ones are also very good but all is very set up sensitive
I’m more a fan of magico and aysolvox
look up some threads in them here.

I disagree that the XVX need a large room. Framer’s room is not large. It’s all how the room acoustics are setup and how the speakers are placed and adjusted.

 

[Zeotrope]

Partnering has certainly something to do with it as they were demonstrating the XVX with Nagra which im not a fan off .
The Alexx was playing with D agostino and iirc the small DAW as well which adds to the dry / sterile sound
Plus its a show with its limitations off course , one room is obviously better dimension wise then the other .
I reckon all loudspeakers no matter what would benefit if they were paired with the Gryphon Apex amps and WADAX as a digital source

Ps I would definitively not trade in my LS for the big wilsons thats for sure

Nagra and Wilson is about the best combination you can have, if you want musical vs analytical. If you weren’t impressed, it was the room or the source.

 

[ecwl]

I heard the S5 MKII at a show and they sounded extremely analytical and cold. Haven't had a chance to hear Aysolvox yet. Those also seem like they need a fairly large room.

The Magico M series sounds quite a bit different than than the S5 Mk II. If you’re looking at XVX, the M6 should be on your list of speakers to listen to.

Moreover, as others have noted, it’s always hard to know whether it’s the XVX that sounds analytical to you or the dCS stack. But if you’re going to pair very analytical electronics with your speaker, then I have to admit M series Magico is probably not for you because you’ll hear how analytical your electronics are.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Nagra and Wilson is about the best combination you can have, if you want musical vs analytical. If you weren’t impressed, it was the room or the source.

I reckon my ears were the problem .

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I disagree that the XVX need a large room. Framer’s room is not large. It’s all how the room acoustics are setup and how the speakers are placed and adjusted.

yes; but he has 15,000+++ records and rows of shelves in an adjoining space tempering the size relevance of his small room. and i'm sure the music would breathe more in a larger space around the speakers directly compared to his space. so it is limiting. just not lethally so.

i don't view Michael's situation as evidence that a small room will work well with the XVX. only that it can work depending. rooms filled with 'stuff' can sometimes sound unpredictably wonderful in some ways. but hope is not a plan.

the question really is whether if Michael had a conventional type room "much larger" how much better might they sound given the same amount of love and care?

i would agree that the right small room well sorted out works better than too large a space, or the right space not sorted out. so size alone is not the main issue. but if you start there the performance floor is higher and the performance ceiling much higher. your ROI on speaker investment is better. maybe buying a large expensive speaker system is much cheaper than acquiring/building a larger space and you roll the dice that you can 'make' it work? for Michael the risk was on the Wilson Audio dime.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Nagra and Wilson is about the best combination you can have, if you want musical vs analytical. If you weren’t impressed, it was the room or the source.

I went to munich with quite an open mind .
The Kharma / R Koda and Rockport Lyra / CH sound was on another level compared to the XVX demonstration ( also compared to the Magico M6 demonstration)

 

[Elliot G.]

yes; but he has 15,000+++ records and rows of shelves in an adjoining space tempering the size relevance of his small room. and i'm sure the music would breathe more in a larger space around the speakers directly compared to his space. so it is limiting. just not lethally so.

i don't view Michael's situation as evidence that a small room will work well with the XVX. only that it can work depending. rooms filled with 'stuff' can sometimes sound unpredictably wonderful in some ways. but hope is not a plan.

the question really is whether if Michael had a conventional type room "much larger" how much better might they sound given the same amount of love and care?

i would agree that the right small room well sorted out works better than too large a space, or the right space not sorted out. so size alone is not the main issue. but if you start there the performance floor is higher and the performance ceiling much higher. your ROI on speaker investment is better. maybe buying a large expensive speaker system is much cheaper than acquiring/building a larger space and you roll the dice that you can 'make' it work? for Michael the risk was on the Wilson Audio dime.

without trying to sound snarky How does anyone know that MF's system sounds wonderful or any other adjective if they haven't been there?
Maybe it sounds great and works wonderfully in a moderate room, maybe it doesn't but without experience one can only assume. I agree with Mike that a super large speaker system can sound better in an appropriately sized room. Underline can this is not written on the tablets just they usually require more space and that can be an important factor in the overall sound quality that can be achieved.

 

[Kingrex]

without trying to sound snarky How does anyone know that MF's system sounds wonderful or any other adjective if they haven't been there?
Maybe it sounds great and works wonderfully in a moderate room, maybe it doesn't but without experience one can only assume. I agree with Mike that a super large speaker system can sound better in an appropriately sized room. Underline can this is not written on the tablets just they usually require more space and that can be an important factor in the overall sound quality that can be achieved.

I have seen what I was told is a room frequency response sweep of Fremers room. Its not anything like what I have seen from say Marty's room.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

without trying to sound snarky How does anyone know that MF's system sounds wonderful or any other adjective if they haven't been there?

i've heard from local friends who have spent time there recently who's ears i trust that Michael is getting very good sound.

 

[Bobvin]

Thank you for the generous offer. If I ever make it all the way out to Seattle, I would certainly plan to stop by Portland. Sadly I've never visited the Northwest and it's one of the top destinations on my list in the US.

I don’t know your timeline but the NW is best experienced after the 4th of July when sunshine is the norm and pleasant temps through September. If you love rain, come anytime we have plenty.

 

[Zeotrope]

I went to munich with quite an open mind .
The Kharma / R Koda and Rockport Lyra / CH sound was on another level compared to the XVX demonstration ( also compared to the Magico M6 demonstration)

Interesting. Not trying to disagree with what you heard; but I read 5+ reviews saying the Wilson/Nagra room at Munich 2022 was the best of the show. The lines of people waiting to get in were definitely the longest, an indication of the popularity. We draw our own conclusions, of course.
Personally, I’ve ”been there done that” with low power SET amps (I own an all Kondo Japan front-end) and after hearing what DarTZeel and Nagra can do, I would never go back. So the R Koda is not my cup of tea; not for the price, anyway.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Interesting. Not trying to disagree with what you heard; but I read 5+ reviews saying the Wilson/Nagra room at Munich 2022 was the best of the show. The lines of people waiting to get in were definitely the longest, an indication of the popularity. We draw our own conclusions, of course.
Personally, I’ve ”been there done that” with low power SET amps (I own an all Kondo Japan front-end) and after hearing what DarTZeel and Nagra can do, I would never go back. So the R Koda is not my cup of tea; not for the price, anyway.

I think we can draw the conclusion then that my ears aren t any good .
No problem i ll go try again this year under the motto "listen till you love it "

Ps As said before i dont even appreciate 60 thousand dollar cables , i am not a real audiophile

 

[Ron Resnick]

Nagra and Wilson is about the best combination you can have, if you want musical vs analytical. If you weren’t impressed, it was the room or the source.

It doesn't matter that I love XVX also. Not liking Nagra on Wilson is a totally legitimate preference.

Please don't tell me you're arguing that if an audiophile doesn't like your favorite amp and speaker combination there's something wrong with him/her?

 

[Elliot G.]

Interesting. Not trying to disagree with what you heard; but I read 5+ reviews saying the Wilson/Nagra room at Munich 2022 was the best of the show. The lines of people waiting to get in were definitely the longest, an indication of the popularity. We draw our own conclusions, of course.
Personally, I’ve ”been there done that” with low power SET amps (I own an all Kondo Japan front-end) and after hearing what DarTZeel and Nagra can do, I would never go back. So the R Koda is not my cup of tea; not for the price, anyway.

everyone is certainly entitled to their own viewpoint, I was at MOC and listened to most of what was there and IMO and leaving out our speakers and room, the CH room with Lyra was better sounding ( also crowded but smaller and better controlled access). The Nagra room was very crowded especially since they did many promotional type events there with recording engineers and others. It was so crowded and they talked so much that it was almost impossible to listen with the crowds of people talking and moving around all the time. Maybe it was good but how could you tell. FYI I went back 5-6 times and each time on each day it was the same. MOC does get large crowds and many rooms were jammed, that's a good thing, trying to critically listen very very very difficult. IMO trying to take absolutes from any show is a bad choice, trying to get some indication of what you might want to explore further is truly what the purpose is. I do give large props to all that try to give a great show as I know how much effort, money and work it requires. I can't wait to see this years show.

 

[Zeotrope]

I think we can draw the conclusion then that my ears aren t any good .
No problem i ll go try again this year under the motto "listen till you love it "

Ps As said before i dont even appreciate 60 thousand dollar cables , i am not a real audiophile

My point was just that everyone is different and this is why it's so difficult / impossible to draw much of anything from reviews or others' perceptions.

Even when you audition under great conditions, there are so many variables, and everything matters, it's impossible to draw conclusions for how said components will sound in your own space.
I cannot over-emphasize how much of a difference AC grounding and active vibration isolation platforms made to my system -- these things are just important as the speakers, amps, etc.