Koetsu
- Thread starter jadis
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Well, first of all I do not think a discussion of rebuild costs derails the thread. It is important because it’s something that can be done and, done correctly restores the performance that one enjoyed about the cartridge in the first place.
I found as soon as I had my Koetsu set up correctly and began using it 2 1/2 years ago that it not only did everything I could have wanted a cartridge do perfectly, it also did things I wouldn’t have assumed possible. A recent example I heard that illustrates this is on the Who song “I Can See For Miles”. On one of my CD copies, halfway through the song I realized there was little, if any, bass drum kicks to accentuate the many cymbal crashes Keith Moon does. The song was pretty much how I remembered hearing it over the last 50 yrs or so. But I got curious and played that track on my turntable with the Koetsu Black and presto! Bass drum hits. Very deep hits that you could almost feel better than hear, but there they were throughout the entire song.
So from my perspective, my reasons for wanting Koetsu to do the rebuild is to keep THAT sound for one thing. As far as the price goes well, my cartridge is nearing 40yrs old and maybe had 500-600 hours play time on it when I obtained it. I feel I can probably get a good 2-4 years more from it before it needs a rebuild so the price is a bargain in my book. The plan is to buy a new Black Goldline or Rosewood Standard before I send the other one back so I won’t have to live without that sound.
If I wanted a high performance cartridge that had the most affordable rebuild fee, I would look hard at Soundsmiths cartridges and stick with those if the sound was what I liked hearing. By every accounting I’ve read, he makes phenomenal cartridges. But as good as the accounts are for him re-tipping non Soundsmith cartridges at similarly affordable prices, I’d much rather
save and let Koetsu rebuild MY Koetsu cartridges.
I found as soon as I had my Koetsu set up correctly and began using it 2 1/2 years ago that it not only did everything I could have wanted a cartridge do perfectly, it also did things I wouldn’t have assumed possible. A recent example I heard that illustrates this is on the Who song “I Can See For Miles”. On one of my CD copies, halfway through the song I realized there was little, if any, bass drum kicks to accentuate the many cymbal crashes Keith Moon does. The song was pretty much how I remembered hearing it over the last 50 yrs or so. But I got curious and played that track on my turntable with the Koetsu Black and presto! Bass drum hits. Very deep hits that you could almost feel better than hear, but there they were throughout the entire song.
So from my perspective, my reasons for wanting Koetsu to do the rebuild is to keep THAT sound for one thing. As far as the price goes well, my cartridge is nearing 40yrs old and maybe had 500-600 hours play time on it when I obtained it. I feel I can probably get a good 2-4 years more from it before it needs a rebuild so the price is a bargain in my book. The plan is to buy a new Black Goldline or Rosewood Standard before I send the other one back so I won’t have to live without that sound.
If I wanted a high performance cartridge that had the most affordable rebuild fee, I would look hard at Soundsmiths cartridges and stick with those if the sound was what I liked hearing. By every accounting I’ve read, he makes phenomenal cartridges. But as good as the accounts are for him re-tipping non Soundsmith cartridges at similarly affordable prices, I’d much rather
save and let Koetsu rebuild MY Koetsu cartridges.
Agree. Rebuild prices do not derail the thread. It is part of buying a cartridge. And it was made clear by bonzo that he filters the cartridge brands by the cost of re-tipping and rebuilding. I have to note again that these 2 procedures are not the same thing, and it is quite easy to understand the 2 procedures. Stripping down your car and throwing away all parts except the body and installing brand new parts is not the same procedure as replacing its wheels. That said, I researched on the rebuilding price of 1 USA dealer - Elusive Disc.
$5000 rebuild fee for a $12,000 cartridge. And this dealer adds a trade in program, giving a $2500 value of a working or non-working Koetsu. To me, the whole issue of high cost or medium cost centers around the US SRP. I understand that the dealers in the US do not give any discount, so the $12,000 to me can be a stiff purchase price to start with. The main downside, which is the manufacturer's call, is that they do not to part by part repairs or substitution. This can be frustrating, admittedly, because Koetsu will not even sell a bottom gold plate if a user wants it. But I learned something that made me think of how they (Koetsu) think and do. A few months ago, a user of a Tiger Eye (bought second hand) had a bottom plate that has a gap in the part near the stylus. He wanted it to be moved to another tonearm/TT set and he found a guy to do it. When the guy removed the Tiger Eye, the plate actually came down, totally. He then thought of a way to reinstall the plate, but he has to remove the back pin plate, and its screw. He did just that. and reinstalled the bottom gold plate perfectly. Then he played music. There was none. (It was playing before the operation). They called me, and told me what they did. And I felt instantly that the back pin plate should not have been removed just like that. Because I have seen the innards from other customers, and the very thin wires of the coil were soldered in precision to the four lead out pins. But pulling the plate, one can over-pull it and the wires will snap. Hence, no sound. Had Koetsu sold the plate, the customer would have called back to complain about the no sound. Then what? Order new internal wires, solder? And maybe distortion is the next likely thing to happen. Because of misalignment of the innards. We users are not they (factory artisans). And to do it ourselves, the process may never end right and certainly will cause more angst. Again, this is the difference of repairing, and rebuilding. Aparently, Koetsu does not want a piece by piece customer service thing.
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Here is a sad state of a Rosewood of a customer which underwent a a super typhoon flooding 12 years ago that had his house submerged with 10 feet of floodwaters for many days. After letting it dry for several months, he mustered enough energy to play test it and there was intermittent sound in one channel which would go on and off. The other channel was good. Being a DIY guy, he decided to open it just to see what could be the problem. He couldn't see any from his own point of view and decide to just leave it as it. He never had it repaired by an outside company nor Koetsu.
Not an accurate analogy. Are there car manufacturers who, if the wheel comes off, say I need to rebuild the car and charge you for it in order to replace the wheel, or just charge you an exorbitant amount compared to the market to replace the wheel ?
It's more of a hyperbole as obviously no car shop does that. It's just to show the amount or scope of work of those cartridge makers that do rebuilding.
Let the right person do what the right person does! If you don’t can afford a rebuild of the cartridge you decide to buy, maybe vinyl and record playing isn’t for you.
Perhaps you are better off with some pod on Spotify thru your phone or something instead.
I do not understand how some people can buy a costly component in the first place - then get cheap as H*** when it nees repair…
Let some things be costly, or just stay away from it… and do not complain about all things all the time.
If you buy a Koetsu - then Koetsu should rebuild it when the time comes, right?!
That’s all folks !
All the best
/ Jk
I am curious as to those cartridge manufacturers who charge a lot less for retips and repairs, do they have individual prices already for a missing stylus, missing stylus and missing cantilever, dead sound on 1 channel and 2 channels, etc? And suppose the owner only believes in retipping the stylus but the company techman says they have to change the motor, or suspension, or wires as well? What happens? Obviously, the cost should balloon. And by that time, what choice have you got?
sorry you completely misunderstood what the debate was and are going in circles. It was never about koetsu not rebuilding their own, this was even clarified before, please do the diligence of reading previous posts before voicing loud opinions. And when vdh repairs his own carts for much lower cost does not mean he compromises on the repair. And yes koetsu does sound like Spotify though a pod compared to vdh, top wing,, and Dava.
And the poor sod paid a premium for the pod
that’s all folks,
all the best and happy new year!
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With all respect to everyone - the war in Ukraina is war enough, right…
Yes Koetsu really damands the gear around or else you will not hear what it’s all about and then I understand if is not appreciated to everyone. If you have the right equipment (as goes for everything in your system) that goes together than the Koetsu’s will sing… I’ll promise you that?.
Just a neat thought… Can it be so… that VDH does not use the same exotic materials as Koetsu does and the cost diffrens lays there?
For everybody’s info:
I’m invited to 2023’s first hifi-demo to my friend on the other side of the town. Allready exited… Music and ”swedish fika” on a new years day - what more to long for?!
All the best to everyone ??
/ Jk
Hi Jadis,
Whaoo, nice to hear, just put them on and enjoy… Now I’m at my friend, to listen to his fantastic stereo system…
All the best
/ Jk
Considering buying either Coralstone Diamond or Blue Lace Diamond . Any feedback is welcome thanks
I was just at my friend's house and listened to his Coralstone diamond. Very sweet yet detailed. Not fatiguing at all. He has a Blue Lace Diamond as spare. Brand new and never used. I don't think they'll be far off each other in sound quality. I've heard the Blue Lace on my own system long ago and it has very similar qualities as the Coralstone and is very fast on transients and dynamic tracks. You can't go wrong with either.
audioblazer,
I agree with what jadis said… You can’t go wrong with either coralstone or the magic blue lace. Though I’ve never heard the coralstone… I do have the blue lace here as my workhorse… and it is truly an amazing cart. I had the onyx here about a year ago to compare it to the blue lace. I found the onyx to have the same caracteristics as the blue lace… The only diffrens was that the blue lace was much better in every aspect.. and much more powerful.
Btw: Before I had the blue lace, I read some article somewere about someone who had listen and compared all the stone bodied koetsu’s and he stated that he thought that some secret formula was forged into the coralstone and the blue lace, because they appeared much more powerful in their presentation, than the other stone carts - both in sound and in output signal, allthough all the stonesbody’s have the same 0,3mV in output signal. I found that also, between the onyx and the blue lace… very cool experience indeed.
My recommendation: Just go for it?!!
All the best
/ Jk
audioblazer…
Sorry my friend, my answer to you came under jadis answer to you.. but I hope that’s okay..
I’m in laying lazy in the sofa today.. haha… that’s my excuse.. haha.
all the best
/ Jk
Definitely going for it . Currently slanted towards purchasing blue lace diamond but coralstone is so pretty
as the coral stone is not longer in the program (no corals available any more) I would recommend to go for the coral stone as it will become rare and looked for cart. Blue Lace will be available in any time to come. Mostly Koetsu lovers will not end up with just one Koetsu ;-)
Here's another look at the beauty of the Coralstone Platinum which was installed in an Acoustic Signature TA7000 tonearm. Truly a sight to behold.
That is a gorgeous looking cartridge! I would love to hear what it sounds like.
Best wishes,
Don
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