Koetsu

[jadis]

Hello Koetsu fans, I recently became the owner of my first one and am excited to have my first listen. I started a new thread about it, but have not had much response, so I thought I would stop in here. I just didn't want to clutter up this thread. It is currently nude and I was hoping that you guys, with all your extensive knowledge of all things Koetsu, could help me solve the mystery. I'm a bit apprehensive to use it in its current state, given the seemingly fragile wiring, but was wondering what you guys think. I'll link below...

Mystery Koetsu thread

Thanks in advance for any info you guys can provide, and also thanks for having me

Welcome to the Koetsu thread, Ncoble. Surely you can post and talk anything Koetsu here.

Looking at your pictures in your post, my guess is a Rosewood or Rosewood Signature. The important part would be to find the body which may be inside a Koetsu box. Which leads me to a most puzzle question - why would the owner remove the body or have it removed. Firstly, it's not an easy job by any means. I've seen some open bottom Koetsus and wires are even glued to the inside of the body. Secondly, removing the body defeats the design philosophy of Koetsu in the body as a sort of resonator to its sound as evidenced by where various materials used for its body. Thirdly, the wires are now flying high and low and it seems like they would even touch the vinyl surface. Hope you can locate the body, that's my only advise for now. Good luck.

 

[jadis]

What is the difference between the Blue Lace Platinum and the Onyx Platinum carts?
They look almost identical from photos

Well, they are different stones, Blue Lace from the agate family, and the Onyx is from another. Onyx is whitish mostly, or off white, and Blue Lace can range from darker shade of light blue to a really light shade of light blue which is what I have now. Older production units were more of the darker light blue shade, from those that I've seen. As with most stone types of Koetsu, they will have slightly differences in sound here and there, but not as great to make them drift from the 'Koetsu' house sound.

 

[ncoble03]

Welcome to the Koetsu thread, Ncoble. Surely you can post and talk anything Koetsu here.

Looking at your pictures in your post, my guess is a Rosewood or Rosewood Signature. The important part would be to find the body which may be inside a Koetsu box. Which leads me to a most puzzle question - why would the owner remove the body or have it removed. Firstly, it's not an easy job by any means. I've seen some open bottom Koetsus and wires are even glued to the inside of the body. Secondly, removing the body defeats the design philosophy of Koetsu in the body as a sort of resonator to its sound as evidenced by where various materials used for its body. Thirdly, the wires are now flying high and low and it seems like they would even touch the vinyl surface. Hope you can locate the body, that's my only advise for now. Good luck.

Those were the questions I asked myself as well. I spoke to the store and sent them a picture of the wooden box and they confirmed that there wasn't one in the boxes of belongings. So the poor thing may be lost forever .

My main reason for questioning the model was the silver wiring and silver coils. I thought that only the platinum and urushi models came silver. But the lack of a P in the serial number and holes not being threaded made me think it might not be.

 

[Johan K]

What is the difference between the Blue Lace Platinum and the Onyx Platinum carts?
They look almost identical from photos

How about night and day, Shane ???

 

[jadis]

Those were the questions I asked myself as well. I spoke to the store and sent them a picture of the wooden box and they confirmed that there wasn't one in the boxes of belongings. So the poor thing may be lost forever .

My main reason for questioning the model was the silver wiring and silver coils. I thought that only the platinum and urushi models came silver. But the lack of a P in the serial number and holes not being threaded made me think it might not be.

Here's hoping that the guy who removed the body did not 'modify' the wires too. I found a picture sent to me by a customer who's house got flooded and his entire rig got submerged in water. He opened the gold plate to check the wires and looked intact. Notice in the picture the wires are glued to the rosewood body. And the wires don't look silver.

 

[ncoble03]

Here's hoping that the guy who removed the body did not 'modify' the wires too. I found a picture sent to me by a customer who's house got flooded and his entire rig got submerged in water. He opened the gold plate to check the wires and looked intact. Notice in the picture the wires are glued to the rosewood body. And the wires don't look silver.

View attachment 116456

Looking closely at it I see a small amount of the glue that I assume attached it to the body. But the solder looks factory and I can only hope that it hasn't been too touched(except by a moron with a multimeter). And maybe it was just the lighting that made the wiring look silver., here is a closeup of it. There is no orange tint at all and the coil looks very white metallic.

 

[jadis]

Looking closely at it I see a small amount of the glue that I assume attached it to the body. But the solder looks factory and I can only hope that it hasn't been too touched. And maybe it was just the lighting that made the wiring look silver., here is a closeup of it. There is no orange tint at all and the coil looks very white metallic.

If you plan to use it, maybe look for a reputable cartridge maker to make the wires more stable, as in not touching the vinyl or each other. You must have read that Koetsu rebuilds everything except the body and since yours doesn't have a body, it's pointless to send it to them. Maybe you can try Lyra, they have modified Koetsus in the past and actually removed the body.

 

[ncoble03]

If you plan to use it, maybe look for a reputable cartridge maker to make the wires more stable, as in not touching the vinyl or each other. You must have read that Koetsu rebuilds everything except the body and since yours doesn't have a body, it's pointless to send it to them. Maybe you can try Lyra, they have modified Koetsus in the past and actually removed the body.

Maybe I will reach out to them to see what they can do for me. I have experience with Soundsmith, but not Lyra yet. Also, I might drop by the shop and offer a finders fee if someone can locate the body. Some cash may help the staff be more motivated to find it.

 

[jadis]

Maybe I will reach out to them to see what they can do for me. I have experience with Soundsmith, but not Lyra yet. Also, I might drop by the shop and offer a finders fee if someone can locate the body. Some cash may help the staff be more motivated to find it.

Finding the body would be really the best thing. But if I were you, and want to have it checked and 'rebuilt', I would strongly consider letting Lyra do it because Stig considered the the founder of Koetsu, Yoshiaki Sugano, his mentor (Stereophile article written by Stig himself). And Lyra had made a few nude Koetsus, utilizing just the magnet alone, and I was privileged to have owned it and used it. Below is the Lyra Koetsu cartridge, named Koetsu Ken Chan, early 90s, named after the owner of the Lyra dealership of HK then - The Sound Chamber.

 

[XV-1]

Has anyone heard the Koetsu Rhodonite Platinum?
How does it sound compared to the other stone bodies

 

[XV-1]

Well, they are different stones, Blue Lace from the agate family, and the Onyx is from another. Onyx is whitish mostly, or off white, and Blue Lace can range from darker shade of light blue to a really light shade of light blue which is what I have now. Older production units were more of the darker light blue shade, from those that I've seen. As with most stone types of Koetsu, they will have slightly differences in sound here and there, but not as great to make them drift from the 'Koetsu' house sound.

a dealer I spoke to said this - Old model name is Blue Onyx. New model name is Blue Lace Agate Platinum. It is same

KOETSU MC CARTRIDGE
Blue Lace Agate Platinum
-Specification-

Power generation method: MC.
Output voltage: 0.3mV.
Internal impedance: 4?.
proper needle pressure :1.8-2.0g (20 ?).
Needle tip shape: line contact needle.
Weight: 13g.
Coil wire: high purity silver.
Magnet: Platinum 70% pure iron30%.
Body: Blue onyx.

 

[jadis]

a dealer I spoke to said this - Old model name is Blue Onyx. New model name is Blue Lace Agate Platinum. It is same

KOETSU MC CARTRIDGE
Blue Lace Agate Platinum
-Specification-

Power generation method: MC.
Output voltage: 0.3mV.
Internal impedance: 4?.
proper needle pressure :1.8-2.0g (20 ?).
Needle tip shape: line contact needle.
Weight: 13g.
Coil wire: high purity silver.
Magnet: Platinum 70% pure iron30%.
Body: Blue onyx.

I never encountered the Blue Lace being named Blue Onyx. There was a review on the Coralstone as early as mid-2000s and it mentioned both the Blue Lace and the Blue Onyx and they are 2 different things, as the Blue Lace was mentioned to cost more than the $15,000 Coralstone while the Blue Onyx was 9,000 gbp, that was my understanding.

 

[jadis]

 

[XV-1]

I never encountered the Blue Lace being named Blue Onyx. There was a review on the Coralstone as early as mid-2000s and it mentioned both the Blue Lace and the Blue Onyx and they are 2 different things, as the Blue Lace was mentioned to cost more than the $15,000 Coralstone while the Blue Onyx was 9,000 gbp, that was my understanding.

Koetsu Blue Lace Onyx Platinum - Nirvana Sound

Stereo MC Phono Cartridge

nirvanasound.com

Blue Lace — Koetsu USA

The pinnacle of cartridge design can be found in a Koetsu stone body. The body is machined from a block of high quality stone. Each block is carefully selected for natural grain and polished to a very fine finish. Internally, only the most tightly matched silver sheathed copper c

www.koetsuaudio.com

 

[jadis]

From gem sites in the internet. I'm not really an expert of stones, btw. The 2 stones, Onyx and Blue Lace, are from different families.

What is Onyx?​

Onyx is a type of chalcedony, which is itself a form of microcrystalline quartz. Onyxes have straight, nearly parallel bands or layers of color, which allow skilled gem carvers to cut away material to create cameos and intaglios with extraordinary depth and contrast.

Blue Lace Agate: Meanings, Properties & Uses Of This Special Blue Stone​

As a member of the expansive agate family of gemstones, blue lace agate is quite a hard stone and measures high on the Mohr scale. While extremely durable, its light blue coloring gives it lovely soft, soothing elements reminiscent of perfect sky-blue waters.

 

[XV-1]

From gem sites in the internet. I'm not really an expert of stones, btw. The 2 stones, Onyx and Blue Lace, are from different families.

What is Onyx?​

Onyx is a type of chalcedony, which is itself a form of microcrystalline quartz. Onyxes have straight, nearly parallel bands or layers of color, which allow skilled gem carvers to cut away material to create cameos and intaglios with extraordinary depth and contrast.

Blue Lace Agate: Meanings, Properties & Uses Of This Special Blue Stone​

As a member of the expansive agate family of gemstones, blue lace agate is quite a hard stone and measures high on the Mohr scale. While extremely durable, its light blue coloring gives it lovely soft, soothing elements reminiscent of perfect sky-blue waters.

Are you saying there is a Blue Lace Agate Platinum and a Blue Lace Onyx Platinum? Or is it just Koetsu marketing or name confusion as specs state Agate, but state it's Blue Onyx stone in specs?

What does the paperwork say with your Blue Lace Agate Platinum?

BTW - the review you mention has US$ 15k mixed with 10k pounds - same price back in the day.

 

[jadis]

Are you saying there is a Blue Lace Agate Platinum and a Blue Lace Onyx Platinum? Or is it just Koetsu marketing or name confusion as specs state Agate, but state it's Blue Onyx stone in specs?

What does the paperwork say with your Blue Lace Agate Platinum?

BTW - the review you mention has US$ 15k mixed with 10k pounds - same price back in the day.

What I am saying is there always was a Blue Lace, and never a Blue Onyx on the price list. When people ordered, it was always a Blue Lace, not a Blue Onyx. There was only 1 type of Blue Lace, and I have not seen anyone here in this thread posted a Blue Onyx. Perhaps it's a marketing mix up.

The review implied the Blue Lace and Blue Onyx meant 2 different things, from my perception. He could have called the Blue Onyx a Blue Lace in the end, since he mentioned the Blue Lace earlier already. Still, it has some mark of confusion there, if you base it on the price. But he did say the Blue Lace is even more expensive than the $15,000 Coralstone. And if the Blue Onyx was $15,000 converted, it is still not even more expensive, but just equals the Coralsone.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Finding the body would be really the best thing. But if I were you, and want to have it checked and 'rebuilt', I would strongly consider letting Lyra do it because Stig considered the the founder of Koetsu, Yoshiaki Sugano, his mentor (Stereophile article written by Stig himself). And Lyra had made a few nude Koetsus, utilizing just the magnet alone, and I was privileged to have owned it and used it. Below is the Lyra Koetsu cartridge, named Koetsu Ken Chan, early 90s, named after the owner of the Lyra dealership of HK then - The Sound Chamber.

View attachment 116471

Maybe try it at Kirschner, specify the dimensions and type of wood and have it built.

HEADSHELLS... Informationen und Beispiele

Sonderanfertigungen für "Exoten" es kommt immer öfter vor, dass für schöne Tonarme die entsprechenden Headshells schwer verfügbar sind oder auch zu nicht mehr nachvollziehbaren Preisen gehandelt werden. Wem es um die Funktion und nicht um das Originalbauteil geht dem kann hier geholfen werden.

www.tischlerei-kirschner.de

 

[ncoble03]

Maybe try it at Kirschner, specify the dimensions and type of wood and have it built.

HEADSHELLS... Informationen und Beispiele

Sonderanfertigungen für "Exoten" es kommt immer öfter vor, dass für schöne Tonarme die entsprechenden Headshells schwer verfügbar sind oder auch zu nicht mehr nachvollziehbaren Preisen gehandelt werden. Wem es um die Funktion und nicht um das Originalbauteil geht dem kann hier geholfen werden.

www.tischlerei-kirschner.de

That's a possibility as well, but I would need to have a volunteer use a dial caliper on their body so I could log the dimensions.

 

[jadis]

That's a possibility as well, but I would need to have a volunteer use a dial caliper on their body so I could log the dimensions.

That is just the beginning. Next would be to put the assembly into the wood body and glue them together and then align it with precision instruments and an alignment grid. If not perfectly aligned, then you have to do it all over again and maybe even chisel some wood. That is one of the reasons why Koetsu rebuild is expensive, the labor needed for small pieces of components, to remove it , refit it, realign it and repeat the process if something fails to be perfect - skill, instruments, and experience are all needed here. It's not a snap and pop operation by any means. One reason why in my experience, Koetsus can last almost forever (unless you shock it), my Black 8 years, Rosewood Signature 12 years. All sold in working condition when I upgraded.