KR 242, Elrog 300, px4, px25, EML and KR 5u4g, and KR 274b

[YashN]

this afternoon at work I received the 1.2m Sablon Audio Panatela Reserva 'unpowered' USB cable that Mark had sent me late last week.

first thing is that the Sablon cable pretty much eliminates the digital glare and upward tilt of the FR. more listenable. more refined. no longer 'in your face'. my previous perception was that these issues were acceptable; but in the context of the Sablon my view now of that has changed.....which a new reference will do. and that is through the SE GG with the Elrog-Tak tubes. the lower registers are more fleshed out, more chest in vocals, leading edge transients still have appropriate bite, but on peaks you don't cringe. seems like improved delicacy and textures......more nuance.

Because my DAC needs the +5V but GND can be disconnected when the internal battery isn't charging, I modified my DIY USB cable with a switch on the GND line as well as a filter on the power lines when both are connected. I already knew the GND disconnection made a big difference since manually experimenting with it before, it was just a matter of sitting down and working on my old cable again, I also reduce its length to the minimum in my current configuration. Currently being tested with a chain of DSD64/128/256 -> native DSD DAC -> SET Tube Amp.

Doers wonders, especially for the mid-range, I still need to add some shielding as well. Fast transients.

For charging, I toggle the switch, and if I want to listen critically, I can toggle the GND disconnection.

 

[wisnon]

Atlantic Dac review:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/industryfeatures.html

 

[YashN]

Atlantic Dac review:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/industryfeatures.html

Great review...

...But I have to wonder why his review setup isn't using HQ Player in client-server mode with an NAA for better SQ.

I find it interesting that the DSD256 is again preferred to the PCM-R-2R chain with the Atlantic.

It would be interesting to know first hand from Lukasz what he subjectively prefers: his best R-2R for PCM or his best implementation of Chip-less DSD.

 

[wisnon]

Great review...

...But I have to wonder why his review setup isn't using HQ Player in client-server mode with an NAA for better SQ.

I find it interesting that the DSD256 is again preferred to the PCM-R-2R chain with the Atlantic.

It would be interesting to know first hand from Lukasz what he subjectively prefers: his best R-2R for PCM or his best implementation of Chip-less DSD.

Apparently, the SGM server does better in single PC mode than dual PC mode. Its possible to have the Atlantic with an optional DSD512 chipless engine. That is the demo unit we have here floating around Switzerland and a bunch of us last weekend MUCH preferred the chipless engine over the R2R DD engine. I heard from Lukasz that its transport dépendent (ie which will sound better in a given setup).

The Swiss demo unit also is tube rectified and we tried using a plug in SS recti and the better tube rectis crushed that setup. indeed the winning tube recti was also the 2nd cheapest and can be found on Ebay at less than $35 delivered! The stock Soviet 5y3 recti was very nice, but not as HF extended.

 

[YashN]

Apparently, the SGM server does better in single PC mode than dual PC mode. Its possible to have the Atlantic with an optional DSD512 chipless engine. That is the demo unit we have here floating around Switzerland and a bunch of us last weekend MUCH preferred the chipless engine over the R2R DD engine. I heard from Lukasz that its transport dépendent (ie which will sound better in a given setup).

The Swiss demo unit also is tube rectified and we tried using a plug in SS recti and the better tube rectis crushed that setup. indeed the winning tube recti was also the 2nd cheapest and can be found on Ebay at less than $35 delivered! The stock Soviet 5y3 recti was very nice, but not as HF extended.

Thanks for the info, Wisnon. Would love to try chip-less + Tube output one day - I have designed my next DAC on paper for now like that and it looks like I'll need no less than 6 power supplies for it - going to be fun tackling this project.

I am using Tube rectification in my Tubelab Simple SSE and I don't even feel like implementing the Solid State rectification even though I could then toggle between both and compare, it's great like that

 

[Audiocrack]

this afternoon at work I received the 1.2m Sablon Audio Panatela Reserva 'unpowered' USB cable that Mark had sent me late last week. Mark cautioned it was a brand new cable, so I should wait a couple of days prior to critical listening. not a chance. immediately after dinner I went out to the barn and fired up the system. first I listened to 20 minutes of my normal reference digital with the SE GG and my Totaldac cable, then quickly powered down the GG and server and switched the cable to the Panatela and fired everything back up and stepped back through the same cuts.

after I went through those initial comparative 20 minutes of cuts, I've now spent another hour doing a deeper dive into my normal reference cuts to see if my first gut feel holds.....and it does.

provisional first impressions;

first thing is that the Sablon cable pretty much eliminates the digital glare and upward tilt of the FR. more listenable. more refined. no longer 'in your face'. my previous perception was that these issues were acceptable; but in the context of the Sablon my view now of that has changed.....which a new reference will do. and that is through the SE GG with the Elrog-Tak tubes. the lower registers are more fleshed out, more chest in vocals, leading edge transients still have appropriate bite, but on peaks you don't cringe. seems like improved delicacy and textures......more nuance.

slightly more authority and weight too.

all this with a cold cable that just traveled 6000+ miles in 5 days.

likely over the next days the Sablon will open up more and get more agile.....more refined. right now it's not the last word in openness.....although plenty of space and low noise floor. one thing that typically takes multiple sessions is the degree of energy I hear and how engaging is it? are there trade-offs of detail or texture? right now I like that but I need to spend more time to get my arms around that. I'm traveling Wednesday morning through Friday night. i'll let it cook in until then and see where it's at. maybe put the Totaldac cable back in then.

so far so good. thanks Mark for sending the cable.....appears to be a keeper right now.

how much of what I'm hearing is the 'unpowered' part, and how much is the cable itself?

I did buy one of those dodads Wisnon talked about that 'unpowers' the cable. I can try it with my Totaldac cable and see what that does when it arrives.

added note; now over 2 hours into the listening to the new cable and things are settling in nicely.

Mike, how is the 'unpowered' Sablon usb-cable doing in your system?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, how is the 'unpowered' Sablon usb-cable doing in your system?

well......it was a demo situation, but I've really enjoyed what I'm hearing and so Monday I did pay for it.

I've been meaning to re-insert the Totaldac USB cable to compare to the Sablon again, and....to try the 'Sbooster Vbus2*Isolator' with the Totaldac USB that I purchased (from the Wisnon recommendation) to unpower the Totaldac USB cable to see what is causing what. but I've been busy and just enjoying the listening so I've not got around again to a critical listening mind set to get those things done. (cable comparisons being one of my least favorite audio endevours).

maybe this weekend I will get a chance to investigate properly and respond. right now I'd say the Sablon Panetela Reserva 'unpowered' USB cable is very impressive sounding and the SE GG has never sounded better. and right now I have likely 120-140 hours on it.

 

[Audiocrack]

well......it was a demo situation, but I've really enjoyed what I'm hearing and so Monday I did pay for it.

I've been meaning to re-insert the Totaldac USB cable to compare to the Sablon again, and....to try the 'Sbooster Vbus2*Isolator' with the Totaldac USB that I purchased (from the Wisnon recommendation) to unpower the Totaldac USB cable to see what is causing what. but I've been busy and just enjoying the listening so I've not got around again to a critical listening mind set to get those things done. (cable comparisons being one of my least favorite audio endevours).

maybe this weekend I will get a chance to investigate properly and respond. right now I'd say the Sablon Panetela Reserva 'unpowered' USB cable is very impressive sounding and the SE GG has never sounded better. and right now I have likely 120-140 hours on it.

Interesting. Bill is very happy with this 'unpowered' cable so I am not surprised that your first impressions are favourable. Keep us posted, Mike.

 

[christoph]

Hi there
I have a few questions to the Lampi and tube afficionados.

What is the life expectancy of a pair of output triodes? if I get this right, they are driven rather gently and should last pretty long...
What is the life expectancy of a rectifier tube? They are driven harder than the output tubes, right?

Do you have some cheaper tubes for burn-in of the DAC and caps or for background listening?
I woudn't want to burn precious tube life for that.

Thanks in advance

 

[Sablon Audio]

Hi there
I have a few questions to the Lampi and tube afficionados.

What is the life expectancy of a pair of output triodes? if I get this right, they are driven rather gently and should last pretty long...
What is the life expectancy of a rectifier tube? They are driven harder than the output tubes, right?

Do you have some cheaper tubes for burn-in of the DAC and caps or for background listening?
I woudn't want to burn precious tube life for that.

Thanks in advance

I shouldn't worry Christoph as caps burn in after only 200hrs and you will likely feel the itch to tube roll before the originals expire.

 

[christoph]

Hi Mark

Thanks for your reply.

Can you specify how many hours output triodes will probably last in a Lampi DAC? After being driven quite moderately the should last quite long.
And what about the rectifier tubes? They are driven harder. How many hours should they probably last in a Lapizator DAC?

 

[Sablon Audio]

Hi Mark

Thanks for your reply.

Can you specify how many hours output triodes will probably last in a Lampi DAC? After being driven quite moderately the should last quite long.
And what about the rectifier tubes? They are driven harder. How many hours should they probably last in a Lapizator DAC?[/QUOTE

Whilst I can't give you hard data for the plethora of tubes in use Christoph, I can say that I haven't heard of any failures besides the Elrog. Given that the lampi DHT models have now been around for about three years, this suggests there is no great cause for concerm

 

[elcorso]

Hi Mark

Thanks for your reply.

Can you specify how many hours output triodes will probably last in a Lampi DAC? After being driven quite moderately the should last quite long.
And what about the rectifier tubes? They are driven harder. How many hours should they probably last in a Lapizator DAC?

Rectifiers tubes could outlast your Lampi span life. It depends con the tube quality. They are talking (with some other tube gear) about 80,000 hours and more.

Regarding output triodes is the same and they work almost at idle in the Lampi.

But is better to let the Lampi all the time ON, each time you go OFF and the ON you will short tube life.

In my particular case with some daily short power failure I use an UPS with the Lampi.

Roch

 

[christoph]

Thanks Roch

That's good news regarding life time expectancy of the recti and output tubes
But do you really leave your Lampi on all the time? How many watts does it consume at idle?
Doesn't leaving it on all the time shorten the lifespan of the other parts? Especially the caps?

Cheers,
Christoph

 

[elcorso]

Thanks Roch

That's good news regarding life time expectancy of the recti and output tubes
But do you really leave your Lampi on all the time? How many watts does it consume at idle?
Doesn't leaving it on all the time shorten the lifespan of the other parts? Especially the caps?

Cheers,
Christoph

Hi Christoph,

Yes my Lampi is ON all the time.

They talk about 40 Watts regarding power consumption. I can't not measure it at idle even my PSU has a screen for that.

This is what you can read from the user manual:

"Power on-off cycle

The tube lifetime, almost like the life of a car engine in polar climate – is determined largely by the on-off cycle. The heat expansion coefficient of the glass is so much different than that of the metal, that the air-tight seal of the metal pins can leak oxygen inside the tube and eventually kill it. Even if it is just one molecule per day. So in other words it is better to keep the DAC always on, than to switch it on and off more than necessary.
On top of that – the tubes are operated always around 25% of full nominal power, which greatly increases their life expectancy.

Aging problems

As already explained above, the DAC should age very very slowly.
The digital PCB should last a lifetime. The transformer, the paper in oil caps, the cables, plugs, sockets – should last a lifetime. There are only 4 electrolyte caps which we selected from premium brands and they should last circa 25-30 years. Other than that we suggest to change tubes every 10 years.
So - short of a thunderstrike – we expect no failures or aging problems before 20-30 years.

Cheers,

Roch

 

[christoph]

Hi Roch

Thanks again for your valuable input.
I still think a part in me is not willing to leave me gear on all the time but I will probably only switch it on (and off) once a day.

Do you also have tube gear for the rest of your system?
What do you do there? Do you leave that always on as well?

Cheers,
Christoph

 

[Audiocrack]

Using tube amplification all my audio life and the Lampi GG for the last couple of years I have developed the following routine:
- I always switch off my (current Kondo) tube amps when I am done listening.
- I only switch off the Lampi GG if I will not listen to the system for more than a couple of days. So even when I know that for example it will take another two days before I am able to listen again, I leave the GG on. Not only to spare the tubes but also because it takes (quite) a while before the GG is performing at its best musically.

 

[Sablon Audio]

Having had a few power tubes go bad in my time (and a >300 centigrade cherry red 6c33c is quite a sight....), I have become rather cautious about leaving tube devices switched on. Am inclined just to switch them on an hour or so before serious listening to let them cheer up.

 

[christoph]

Hi Audiocrack and Mark

How long does it take until your GG sounds at it's best?
And also, how long is the burn-in time until a new GG settles?

I wouldn't dare to leave my tube gear on, when I'm not at home.
A KR Audio T100 tube turned red hot, while we were listening and we jumped across the room to switch the amp off. I don't want to find out, what would have happened, if we didn't immediately turn off the amp...

So, unattended tube gear is out of the question for me.
I don't want to burn my house down, with all those treasures in it.

Cheers,
Christoph

 

[Sablon Audio]

I'd say @200 hours puts the worst of the burn-in behind you Christoph and @1hr warm-up before serious listening.