I also agree wholeheartedly with your comment that Lampi DACs have changed my listening habits. I now enjoy digital to an extent I didn’t think possible before. I’m listening now to a magnificent recent recording of Rachmaninov’s choral masterpiece, his All Night Vigil, recorded by none other than Keith Johnson of Reference Recordings. It’s fabulously sung by a Cape Cod choir that has made many great recordings. I don’t have the 45 rpm vinyl release of the same album put out by Reference Recordings, but the 176.4 kHZ Qobuz version sounds really lovely. A desert island disc. Perfect for the holiday season.
Lampizator announcement: launch of our all new TOTL HORIZON DAC
- Thread starter Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus
- Start date
I moved from a dCS Vivaldi One (with a Vivaldi Clock and a Cybershaft OP21A 10Mhz clock) to a Lampi Pacific SE after a auditioning it in my system. I absolutely love the level of believability it delivers. That said, I was fortunate to attend the CA debut of the Horizon at @Steve Williams home in SoCal. Shockingly, the Horizon made the Pacific sound mundane. My fear was that I would not be able to enjoy my Pacific when I returned to my home. Fortunately, that was not the case and I am still smitten by the Pacific. I hope you @godofwealth get to hear the Horizon one day. It might prove to be a revelation for you…
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from Vivaldi also to the big 7 will be a slam dunk. I compared Vivaldi to golden gate with Lampi 45 tubes.
It sounds like you have a bias for analog that I myself held until I heard the Horizon at Steve's place. Absolutely no problem with that but don't you agree they are mutually exclusive and musical enjoyment can be derived from both?
Steve has a very fine analog setup using a Tech Das, Airforce 3, SME 2012 and top of the line VandenHul cartridge, set up by none other than David Karmelli. It's excellent, but IMHO Steve's Horizon/Taiko setup (with latest software) is more enjoyable in several respects.
I have been an analog devotee for over 40 years and will never stop spinning vinyl. On the other hand, the Horizon is the DAC that shifted my perspective, so much so I put my money on it and ordered a Horizon from Fred Ainsley, the US importer. PS I currently have a Pacific in my system using 300Bs so appreciate your point of reference.
So the bottom line for me is not one medium over the other. I love the Horizon for what it does musically and both for what they do individually.
Enjoy the music be it vinyl or digital and Merry Christmas!
Steve has a very fine analog setup using a Tech Das, Airforce 3, SME 2012 and top of the line VandenHul cartridge, set up by none other than David Karmelli. It's excellent, but IMHO Steve's Horizon/Taiko setup (with latest software) is more enjoyable in several respects.
I have been an analog devotee for over 40 years and will never stop spinning vinyl. On the other hand, the Horizon is the DAC that shifted my perspective, so much so I put my money on it and ordered a Horizon from Fred Ainsley, the US importer. PS I currently have a Pacific in my system using 300Bs so appreciate your point of reference.
So the bottom line for me is not one medium over the other. I love the Horizon for what it does musically and both for what they do individually.
Enjoy the music be it vinyl or digital and Merry Christmas!
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
It’s not that just analog and vinyl that I have a bias for. It’s analog vinyl in MONO. That’s right. The very best source in my house is a fully restored Garrard grease bearing 301 idler turntable with a 12” SME arm that mounts a true mono Miyajima Infinity Zero cartridge. The Infinity is the best cartridge I have ever heard in 35 years, and it trumps all the Koetsu’s and Lyras and van den Hul’s etc. I have owned and heard by
country mile. I would put it up against any $30k cartridge.
In short, if you haven’t heard vinyl reproduced by a true mono cartridge of the caliber of the Miyajima, you haven’t heard vinyl. Stereo is a pale ghostly imitation of what mono can do. The Miyajima’s dynamics will make your hair stand up. It’s a huge cartridge, two to three times larger than anything else out there. It only plays mono records. It will quickly destroy your stereo albums. It has no vertical modulation, only lateral. It is impervious to record noise.
The first 50 years of recorded music from 1920-1970 is the era of mono. The greatest musical artists of this era, the likes of whom we are not likely to see again in this century, were recorded in mono. They should be heard in mono on vinyl. I’m talking of The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, Ella Fitzgerald, John Coltrane, Chet Baker, Lester Young, Duke Ellington, Enrico Caruso, Johnny Cash, The Weavers, Pete Seeger… the list is endless. Thousands of the greatest artists in country music, classical music, jazz, rock and roll and popular music were recorded in mono on tube gear and using very simple mike arrangements.
Bob Dylan, The Beatles, and many other artists hated stereo. They felt it was a gimmick. Which it was, designed to earn a few more cents per record by the recording labels. The Beatles personally supervised each of their album mastering in mono. They never bothered with the ghastly stereo remakes, leaving that to some studio flunkey. Dylan thought the stereo mastering of his great albums was sacrilege. His voice in one channel, his harmonica and guitar on another, panning back and forth as if he was a ghost. Hear them in mono as they were intended you to hear them.
If the Horizon can top the reproduction of a true mono cartridge like the Miyajima, I would definitely be interested! But I’m holding out for more. I expect a no holds barred design from Lampi. The Horizon is not it. At that price or above, I want true bespoke power supplies, one per channel. Like MSB Select II or the Naim ND555. I think Lukasz will do it! I’m waiting..
I appreciate the advocacy for the Horizon. I’m sure it’s a great sounding DAC. But is it the very best Lampi can put out?
country mile. I would put it up against any $30k cartridge.
In short, if you haven’t heard vinyl reproduced by a true mono cartridge of the caliber of the Miyajima, you haven’t heard vinyl. Stereo is a pale ghostly imitation of what mono can do. The Miyajima’s dynamics will make your hair stand up. It’s a huge cartridge, two to three times larger than anything else out there. It only plays mono records. It will quickly destroy your stereo albums. It has no vertical modulation, only lateral. It is impervious to record noise.
The first 50 years of recorded music from 1920-1970 is the era of mono. The greatest musical artists of this era, the likes of whom we are not likely to see again in this century, were recorded in mono. They should be heard in mono on vinyl. I’m talking of The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, Ella Fitzgerald, John Coltrane, Chet Baker, Lester Young, Duke Ellington, Enrico Caruso, Johnny Cash, The Weavers, Pete Seeger… the list is endless. Thousands of the greatest artists in country music, classical music, jazz, rock and roll and popular music were recorded in mono on tube gear and using very simple mike arrangements.
Bob Dylan, The Beatles, and many other artists hated stereo. They felt it was a gimmick. Which it was, designed to earn a few more cents per record by the recording labels. The Beatles personally supervised each of their album mastering in mono. They never bothered with the ghastly stereo remakes, leaving that to some studio flunkey. Dylan thought the stereo mastering of his great albums was sacrilege. His voice in one channel, his harmonica and guitar on another, panning back and forth as if he was a ghost. Hear them in mono as they were intended you to hear them.
If the Horizon can top the reproduction of a true mono cartridge like the Miyajima, I would definitely be interested! But I’m holding out for more. I expect a no holds barred design from Lampi. The Horizon is not it. At that price or above, I want true bespoke power supplies, one per channel. Like MSB Select II or the Naim ND555. I think Lukasz will do it! I’m waiting..
I appreciate the advocacy for the Horizon. I’m sure it’s a great sounding DAC. But is it the very best Lampi can put out?
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
at the moment , I would say yes it is however we also know that progress never stands still as I said it was the Pacific that drew me back to digital. I would always say that I couldn’t imagine it get any better until I received my Horizon. Further I’m not a tube roller so it took me all of 3 different tube sets before I decided what was best for my system and best for my ears. Once done I would say yes it’s the best Lampi can put out ……” for now”
I'm not sure he'll do it as I read somewhere that his opinion is that one box solution is his preferred technical solution - trying to dig out that text now to see exact reason. On top with my logic, but I'm not technically competent to comment, DACs per se are not operating with insane voltages and current demands that you really need separate boxes to fulfill those needs in perfect way. Hence one even two or three PS boxes (CH Precision) are maybe complete overkill. From sales and marketing perspective I agree with You and would love to see him doing separate PS for TOTL offer or at least to be an option as other manufacturers do (to be even 100% honest I would try to get it despite the fact what I wrote above - my consumer part is stronger then logical one
)12 months ago I would answer with YES, but getting into 2023 I'm more inclined to say NO as minds of this kind of guys don't operate in standstill modus operandi. Let's see....
There’s more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes. In splitting up a DAC into multiple boxes, one has many design choices. I once owned the mid-level Esoteric D03 DAC (along with the P03 transport and the Rubidium G01Rb clock). Three boxes, each quite heavy, takes a lot of room. Yet, when you stepped up the food chain in Esoteric, the number of boxes increased! The D01 DAC gives you dual mono DACs in two boxes, each with its own power supply. The P01 transport split the power supply and the transport into two boxes. It starts adding up!
In Lampi’s case, the inherent problem with both the Pacific and the Horizon is that you have a very noisy power supply and noisy tubes inside the same case as the highly sensitive DAC circuitry. It makes sense to me to move the noisy circuitry off into its own chassis. I once owned the Mark Levinson 32 preamp. This two box preamp put all the power supply and display circuitry in its own shielded box and the actual preamp circuit is in its own box. The 32 went even further with a complex regeneration of clean AC power from the noisy AC wall power by converting the line voltage to DC and then resynthesizing a clean AC signal from the DC signal. Crazy but it produced the lowest noise of any preamp at that time (noise was under -140 dB).
So, it’s definitely possible to build a better DAC than the Horizon. Whether it’s worth it to Lampi is a different decision. These statement pieces are hard to make and can chew up a lot of resources. MSB Select II goes through a ridiculous amount of high precision CNC machining for their statement DAC, beginning with an 80 pound slab of pure aluminum.
www.msbtechnology.com
In Lampi’s case, the inherent problem with both the Pacific and the Horizon is that you have a very noisy power supply and noisy tubes inside the same case as the highly sensitive DAC circuitry. It makes sense to me to move the noisy circuitry off into its own chassis. I once owned the Mark Levinson 32 preamp. This two box preamp put all the power supply and display circuitry in its own shielded box and the actual preamp circuit is in its own box. The 32 went even further with a complex regeneration of clean AC power from the noisy AC wall power by converting the line voltage to DC and then resynthesizing a clean AC signal from the DC signal. Crazy but it produced the lowest noise of any preamp at that time (noise was under -140 dB).
So, it’s definitely possible to build a better DAC than the Horizon. Whether it’s worth it to Lampi is a different decision. These statement pieces are hard to make and can chew up a lot of resources. MSB Select II goes through a ridiculous amount of high precision CNC machining for their statement DAC, beginning with an 80 pound slab of pure aluminum.
The Select DAC - Features
The Select DAC Features. Starting with an 85lb plate of ‘Kaiser Select Precision Plate’, material is machined in our own in-house CNC shop. After eight hours of machining, 85% of the aluminum is removed, resulting in a 17lb finished product.
www.msbtechnology.com
I'm very well aware of how MSB is doing their chassis and while in pre Horizon period I could only excessively salivate on those facts and pictures, as the difference was obvious, in Horizon period I just don't have this same feeling, as production and CNCing of aluminum slabs is the same - once you see and hold H in person things get very obvious regarding the chassis quality leap vs other units in line up and overall quality of the unit. And I'm not talking about the design of the unit per se as this is something we don't discuss.
Still, tons of aluminum and countless hours of CNCing don't by default translate into sound quality and no MSB S2 nor Esoteric ear pinching sterilized DACs would finish in my room - and I heard almost all from their lineups.
But I agree with you, and I'm almost certain, that Yoda will eventually come up with something even better (sooner then later).
As its almost midnight here I wish You all Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Be healthy and happy above all and enjoy the good tunes along the way!
Still, tons of aluminum and countless hours of CNCing don't by default translate into sound quality and no MSB S2 nor Esoteric ear pinching sterilized DACs would finish in my room - and I heard almost all from their lineups.
But I agree with you, and I'm almost certain, that Yoda will eventually come up with something even better (sooner then later).
As its almost midnight here I wish You all Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Be healthy and happy above all and enjoy the good tunes along the way!
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Agreed on all counts! It’s the sound that ultimately matters. Happy Christmas and New Year to you as well. Here in the Bay Area it’s a pleasant 60 degrees and sunny. Most of the rest of the US is caught in one of coldest winter storms of the past 50 years!
Reading about it and reminded me on the movie "The day after tomorrow"...
I hope all US friends are safe and sound during this period
Metro D.C.- wind chill -15-degree F. Too cold to ride my bicycle to the coffee shop.
Well in my country we have a saying which somehow can be translated into: “Life to someone is a mother, to another is a stepmother.”
Celebrating Christmas Eve with a glass of Hennessy cognac listening to a lovely Telarc CD of Gerry Mulligan called “Dream a Little Dream”. Recorded towards the end of his career, he plays with a relaxed brilliance of someone who has nothing to prove, just music for the sake of it. Telarc’s recording is brilliant. A desert island disc. West coast jazz at its finest.
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steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
FWIW, I have never heard a DCS ring DAC that sounded like music. If resolution is your priority, I'm much more of a Meitner guy, but honestly, who cares? The Lampi approach (embodied by my former GG2 and now my Horizon) has made me a digital believer. No other DAC manufacturer has gotten many of us to the promised land.
This is nonsense. As Lukasz has stated :
"The 7 tubes work in a new way, never seen before in any DAC. The pentodes provide power supply regulation, active anode loading and cathode buffering - all at the same time - thanks to their 3 grids. The dual triodes provide voltage amplification and current conversion in the DAC process."
"We use very modern chips that no one else has right now, and they are programmable, so we write firmware which controlls the block diagram of the chip, filtering, sampling rates, dsd, conversion current, and all that."
In other words, if using a pentode and triode to make a novel "virtual" octal tube is not bespoke design, then I don't know what is.
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