Linn LP 12... anyone else still like this design?

[class a]

The thing about the Linn is they all don't sound the same. You can stop anywhere along the way if your satisfied w/the sound. A $20,000 Linn sounds totally different than a 20 year old Sondek TT. But you have owners that like that particular older sound better.

 

[DaveyF]

This is the latest LP12.....The Highland Park Whisky version ( limited to 40 pieces)....http://www.linn.co.uk/all-products/turntables/limited-edition-sondek-lp12

and priced at a paltry $40K

Crazy thing is they are already sold out after just 24 hours on the market!! Most going to the far east market..
I guess those guys just can't get good whisky

 

[Analogue innovation]

This is the latest LP12.....The Highland Park Whisky version ( limited to 40 pieces)....http://www.linn.co.uk/all-products/turntables/limited-edition-sondek-lp12

and priced at a paltry $40K

Crazy thing is they are already sold out after just 24 hours on the market!! Most going to the far east market..
I guess those guys just can't get good whisky

No Davey; the crazy thing is some audio fools are so smitten with Linn they'll pay stupid money for what is basically an LP12 with a smelly plinth.. I happen to be partial to a little scotch whisky but not so much that it's absorbed into my plinth!

Have you seen their new low cost sub chassis "The Kore" reputed by their partisans that it will kill off all the third party options out there - we'll see

 

[class a]

This is the latest LP12.....The Highland Park Whisky version ( limited to 40 pieces)....http://www.linn.co.uk/all-products/turntables/limited-edition-sondek-lp12

and priced at a paltry $40K
I guess those guys just can't get good whisky

Not surprising, many high end US & Western European companies do a very large percentage of their business in the Far East. Probably keeps some of these companies alive. Good for us keeps our plants open and our workers employed.

 

[mep]

This is the latest LP12.....The Highland Park Whisky version ( limited to 40 pieces)....http://www.linn.co.uk/all-products/turntables/limited-edition-sondek-lp12

and priced at a paltry $40K

Crazy thing is they are already sold out after just 24 hours on the market!! Most going to the far east market..
I guess those guys just can't get good whisky

It makes sense right? It's Linn's 40th anniversary so they add $1K to each year they have been in business and they come out with a price tag of $40K and they only make 40 of the tables. 40-40-40. To some of the very well-heeled, spending $40K for a very exclusive Linn table is chump change. Depending on whether or not you like the smell of whiskey, this table might stink to some.

 

[DaveyF]

It makes sense right? It's Linn's 40th anniversary so they add $1K to each year they have been in business and they come out with a price tag of $40K and they only make 40 of the tables. 40-40-40. To some of the very well-heeled, spending $40K for a very exclusive Linn table is chump change. Depending on whether or not you like the smell of whiskey, this table might stink to some.

Mark, that makes sense in the US, BUT the table is priced at 25K pounds and I doubt any are going to the US. I agree with everything else you say though.
John, I saw the new Kore on their web page. Should be interesting to see how it compares with the other third party options. Since the arm board needs to be glued to the sub chassis, that is IMO a negative, as it once again severely restricts the kind of arm that can be utilized.Unless you want pre-drilled holes showing through on the arm board that is. Like I have said before, IMHO, the BIGGEST weakness to the table is the severe restrictions it puts on the kind of arm one can use. To pay $40K for the LP12 with the arm restriction that it imposes is sheer madness, again IMHO.

 

[MylesBAstor]

It makes sense right? It's Linn's 40th anniversary so they add $1K to each year they have been in business and they come out with a price tag of $40K and they only make 40 of the tables. 40-40-40. To some of the very well-heeled, spending $40K for a very exclusive Linn table is chump change. Depending on whether or not you like the smell of whiskey, this table might stink to some.

Ah c'mon Mark. Aren't you being too harsh? Haven't you heard about getting drunk on the sound?

 

[mep]

Honestly, even if they only made four of them instead of forty and I could buy one for $1K, I would pass on it.

 

[Analogue innovation]

The LP12 is a nice capable turntable far from the best of course, but for a reasonable cost SH a good one can be purchased and enjoyed for its particular musical presantation..

For me though the biggest issues this deck suffers..

The first being Bullshit surrounding its creation - it was never designed by Linn! The purists hate me for reminding them of that. They also hate (in a very childish name calling way) anyone who points out that the deck has real issues.. Just take a look at what they say about Daveyf and I, plus another member sonddek. Completely infantile behaviour.

The second issue is total bullshit again I'm afraid - that only Linn "expert retailers" can set this thing up - complete and utter poppycock-- Perhaps that's why the thing is said to go out of tune every two years or so? To me it's simply another money making ploy - fools and their money eh?

Finally these Linn partisans frighten off anyone who may actually aspire to owning an LP12 by suggesting the attention of the aforementioned "expert retailers" and that they need to have the best of everything Linn produce - May be so as far as they are concerned, but I know different!

Finally, just look at the sheer snobbishness of their "signatures" on the Linn forum telling every one what they have. Oh for God's sake it's enough to make one gag it really is. That lot really need to grow up.

 

[mep]

I always thought the original LP-12 tables were nothing more than a glorified first generation AR table which sold for $50 new. Yes, the Linn has a better arm than the AR arm, but how much better was the actual table?

 

[Analogue innovation]

At the time I guess not much better; it was pretty poor to say the least although the solid hardwood plinth was good.

What did it for Linn at the time was the marketing tack employed by one Ivor Tiefenbrun, son of the owner of Castle Engineering where it is said he turned things on its head with his "source first" philosophy as drummed into the hi-fi press of the day, in the UK at least, ie garbage in, garbage out.

IT and Co then manufactured and patented their single point bearing. I believe this bearing, along with the hardwood plinth and zinc alloy platters are where the "sound" of the LP12 lay. Why? Well there have been many third party upgrades available for this TT, including motors, top plates, plinths and sub-chassis, each of these components helping to improve aspects of its musical presentation but none apparently removing or degrading the LP12's famed boogie factor?

Bottom line is Linn are in the business to make big bucks out of it and they still are! To the blinkered loyal they think it's fantastic - to the rest of us it only goes to prove it was flawed from the start! Along the way to where we are today some poorly thought out "upgrades" were introduced and more bucks were made out of the blinkered!

Really the Linn faithful should thank us third party upgrade guys for highlighting the shortcomings of their beloved TT!!







I

 

[DaveyF]

At the time I guess not much better; it was pretty poor to say the least although the solid hardwood plinth was good.

What did it for Linn at the time was the marketing tack employed by one Ivor Tiefenbrun, son of the owner of Castle Engineering where it is said he turned things on its head with his "source first" philosophy as drummed into the hi-fi press of the day, in the UK at least, ie garbage in, garbage out.

IT and Co then manufactured and patented their single point bearing. I believe this bearing, along with the hardwood plinth and zinc alloy platters are where the "sound" of the LP12 lay. Why? Well there have been many third party upgrades available for this TT, including motors, top plates, plinths and sub-chassis, each of these components helping to improve aspects of its musical presentation but none apparently removing or degrading the LP12's famed boogie factor?

Bottom line is Linn are in the business to make big bucks out of it and they still are! To the blinkered loyal they think it's fantastic - to the rest of us it only goes to prove it was flawed from the start! Along the way to where we are today some poorly thought out "upgrades" were introduced and more bucks were made out of the blinkered!

Really the Linn faithful should thank us third party upgrade guys for highlighting the shortcomings of their beloved TT!!







I

John, I do agree with you, most of the Linn forum guys are ignorant and infantile. They seem to be completely blinkered by their biases and are incapable of admitting that the table has some serious flaws. As a LP12 owner, plus one who is now committing some serious money towards the table, I fail to see why others cannot admit to its downside. I would never go as far as to say that it can compete with the likes of a Walker or any turntable of that pedigree. To hear some of these guys say that it can compete in that league is just ludicrous. As I stated on that forum, it clearly shows me that these guys have VERY limited experience in what's possible in analog reproduction. As a defense mechanism, they justify their ignorance with ad hominem attacks. A pathetic group of individual's IMHO.

As to your other point about only authorized dealer's know how to do the set-up...I agree, that is truly a crock! My friend is a Basis dealer, he can set up a TT like few others, he has set up my Linn for years and it KILLS the one's set up by the other so-called Linn experts. The local Linn rep doesn't have anything on this guy. Bottom line, IF you have someone who is great at analog set up, whether or not he's a Linn dealer is irrelevant. Lastly, my LP12 stays in set up year after year, no reason to play with it....once it's done right, that's it.

 

[class a]

Recently had my Linn serviced. The Valhalla was toast. My dealer (who sells Linn) said he can have it serviced and upgraded for very little money. For years he's been using Neil Jadman in California to fully rebuild old Vallhallas. Cost just $85 w/a 10 day turnaround. Speed is locked right in. The power supply you get back is much better than the standard Linn product. I also need new feet for the TT. He said forget the Linn feet (which cost $60) and he sold me a better set that cost just $25.

 

[Analogue innovation]

Recently had my Linn serviced. The Valhalla was toast. My dealer (who sells Linn) said he can have it serviced and upgraded for very little money. For years he's been using Neil Jadman in California to fully rebuild old Vallhallas. Cost just $85 w/a 10 day turnaround. Speed is locked right in. The power supply you get back is much better than the standard Linn product. I also need new feet for the TT. He said forget the Linn feet (which cost $60) and he sold me a better set that cost just $25.

NJ is well known in audio circles, producing many upgrades and mods for Naim amps etc.. You won't go wrong with a Neil J OH to the Valhalla.

Another great little power supply upgrade for those seeking a 45 RPM option is the MOSE Hercules.. The Mose places the PS board in an off board case of similar size to the old Linn Lingo case and to me who has a Lingo 1 (and listened via a Lingo 2 in my system) runs them very close indeed for a lot less outlay.

 

[Analogue innovation]

John, I do agree with you, most of the Linn forum guys are ignorant and infantile. They seem to be completely blinkered by their biases and are incapable of admitting that the table has some serious flaws. As a LP12 owner, plus one who is now committing some serious money towards the table, I fail to see why others cannot admit to its downside. I would never go as far as to say that it can compete with the likes of a Walker or any turntable of that pedigree. To hear some of these guys say that it can compete in that league is just ludicrous. As I stated on that forum, it clearly shows me that these guys have VERY limited experience in what's possible in analog reproduction. As a defense mechanism, they justify their ignorance with ad hominem attacks. A pathetic group of individual's IMHO.

As to your other point about only authorized dealer's know how to do the set-up...I agree, that is truly a crock! My friend is a Basis dealer, he can set up a TT like few others, he has set up my Linn for years and it KILLS the one's set up by the other so-called Linn experts. The local Linn rep doesn't have anything on this guy. Bottom line, IF you have someone who is great at analog set up, whether or not he's a Linn dealer is irrelevant. Lastly, my LP12 stays in set up year after year, no reason to play with it....once it's done right, that's it.

That's correct Davey, their treatment to those like ourselves, who challenge their norm is appalling and tantamount to mob rule. That Linn allow it to happen is shameful. It would be far better to moderate our argument/opinion than to recklessly allow their followers to openly abuse those who challenge to their beliefs.

All I look for is a reasoned debate but the sheep can't respond with any coherent debate, there again this lot struggle to change a belt without supervision and when it comes to cartridge set up there's no hope of them understanding what is required, so it's off to the dealer to get shafted and a brainwash top up!

 

[mep]

That's correct Davey, their treatment to those like ourselves, who challenge their norm is appalling and tantamount to mob rule. That Linn allow it to happen is shameful. It would be far better to moderate our argument/opinion than to recklessly allow their followers to openly abuse those who challenge to their beliefs.

All I look for is a reasoned debate but the sheep can't respond with any coherent debate, there again this lot struggle to change a belt without supervision and when it comes to cartridge set up there's no hope of them understanding what is required, so it's off to the dealer to get shafted and a brainwash top up!

I have always thought Linn was a cult so when you talk about the brainwashed masses that need to have their brains topped off at their local Linn dealer, it just reinforces what I always believed.

 

[puroagave]

I have always thought Linn was a cult so when you talk about the brainwashed masses that need to have their brains topped off at their local Linn dealer, it just reinforces what I always believed.

don't they have a word for them "linnies" or "linnites"?

 

[Analogue innovation]

I have always thought Linn was a cult so when you talk about the brainwashed masses that need to have their brains topped off at their local Linn dealer, it just reinforces what I always believed.

Hi Mep.

When I was a mech eng student in the early 70's UK and into music and audio equipment the Audio press had been brow beaten by IT into the Linn mantra. Consequently reading this I always aspired to an LP12 of my own.. When I finally purchased an early one I was horrified to see how basic and poorly constructed it was so I set about making mods for it myself, I was amazed at how my own well thought out mods transformed the thing into a rather nice TT..
Of course the purists will have none of this and they will not discuss, so they insult the hell out of me. Ah well.

 

[mep]

don't they have a word for them "linnies" or "linnites"?

Yep, I believe both apply. And as DaveyF and others have found, if you cross them and their Linn dogma, watch out. The venom is maybe slightly less than if you were a member of the Westboro Baptist Church and you confessed your belief in gay marriage.

 

[puroagave]

Yep, I believe both apply. And as DaveyF and others have found, if you cross them and their Linn dogma, watch out. The venom is maybe slightly less than if you were a member of the Westboro Baptist Church and you confessed your belief in gay marriage.

good one

it must be a uK phenomeon, the naim fanbois behave similarly on their forum. over at the harbeth user group (HUG) if your posts dont jibe with their their way of thinking the mod will edit your post!