Linn LP 12... anyone else still like this design?

[mep]

Katylied, I think the new Kandid should probably still to be considered a re-badged Lyra. It may be a Linn design, BUT Scantech/Lyra is manufacturing it and I think it employs a lot of the already seen Lyra/Scantech technology.

I'm trying to decide if anything you just said makes any sense. Katylied told you that the Kandid is a Linn design that uses some of the Lyra technology and is built by Scantech. You Polly-parroted those words back, but you want to consider it a Lyra/Scantech cartridge with a Linn badge. Either Linn designed the cartridge or they didn't. If Linn designed the cartridge and Scantech manufactured the cartridge to Linn's specs, that would make it a Linn cartridge. If Linn didn't really design the cartridge and just asked Scantech to build them something a little different than they normally build at a certain price point, that would make it a Scantech cartridge with a Linn name on it.

Scantech/Lyra is in the business of manufacturing cartridges which means they have the technology and the tools to manufacture cartridges. Sam Adams started off in life with no breweries of their own. They had to go to other breweries and rent factory time and use the brewery's equipment and technology to manufacture Sam Adams. By your analogy, if Sam Adams rented out the Old Milwaukee brewery to brew up a batch of Sam Adams, that would make Sam Adams beer Old Milwaukee beer with a Sam Adams label.

 

[DaveyF]

I'm trying to decide if anything you just said makes any sense. Katylied told you that the Kandid is a Linn design that uses some of the Lyra technology and is built by Scantech. You Polly-parroted those words back, but you want to consider it a Lyra/Scantech cartridge with a Linn badge. Either Linn designed the cartridge or they didn't. If Linn designed the cartridge and Scantech manufactured the cartridge to Linn's specs, that would make it a Linn cartridge. If Linn didn't really design the cartridge and just asked Scantech to build them something a little different than they normally build at a certain price point, that would make it a Scantech cartridge with a Linn name on it.

Scantech/Lyra is in the business of manufacturing cartridges which means they have the technology and the tools to manufacture cartridges. Sam Adams started off in life with no breweries of their own. They had to go to other breweries and rent factory time and use the brewery's equipment and technology to manufacture Sam Adams. By your analogy, if Sam Adams rented out the Old Milwaukee brewery to brew up a batch of Sam Adams, that would make Sam Adams beer Old Milwaukee beer with a Sam Adams label.

Let me put it this way, Linn has NEVER manufactured any cartridge themselves; or for that matter, any of their tonearms. In my books all of these are re-badged, or IF you want to be ultra correct ( which frankly I couldn't give a rat's ass about), they are other manufacturer's product that Linn simply slapped their name on. BTW, does this bother you somehow?? IF SO, GET A LIFE.

 

[katylied]

Or for that mater any of their tonearms.

Your informations are not updated. The Ekos is made in Scotland by Linn since its introduction, the Akito since the MKII version (now is MKIII).

 

[MylesBAstor]

I'm trying to decide if anything you just said makes any sense. Katylied told you that the Kandid is a Linn design that uses some of the Lyra technology and is built by Scantech. You Polly-parroted those words back, but you want to consider it a Lyra/Scantech cartridge with a Linn badge. Either Linn designed the cartridge or they didn't. If Linn designed the cartridge and Scantech manufactured the cartridge to Linn's specs, that would make it a Linn cartridge. If Linn didn't really design the cartridge and just asked Scantech to build them something a little different than they normally build at a certain price point, that would make it a Scantech cartridge with a Linn name on it.

Scantech/Lyra is in the business of manufacturing cartridges which means they have the technology and the tools to manufacture cartridges. Sam Adams started off in life with no breweries of their own. They had to go to other breweries and rent factory time and use the brewery's equipment and technology to manufacture Sam Adams. By your analogy, if Sam Adams rented out the Old Milwaukee brewery to brew up a batch of Sam Adams, that would make Sam Adams beer Old Milwaukee beer with a Sam Adams label.

What I'd bet happened is that Linn went to Jonathan with an idea of what they wanted and Lyra made them a mock-up.

Sort of like when Dave Wilson went to Scan Tech and had them build him a Parnassus with a ruler flat FR.

 

[DaveyF]

Your informations are not updated. The Ekos is made in Scotland by Linn since its introduction, the Akito since the MKII version (now is MKIII).

Katy, Good to know. However, how many of their other analog products ( we were talking cartridges here), except for the table are not made by them....which is my main point.

 

[katylied]

...... except for the table are not made by them....which is my main point.

Understood your point, but again, this doesn't make the Linn Kandid a Lyra cartridge rebadged.
Anyway, we was talking about LP12 or what?:b

 

[DaveyF]

Understood your point, but again, this doesn't make the Linn Kandid a Lyra cartridge rebadged.
Anyway, we was talking about LP12 or what?:b

We were talking about the LP12...and that's what I think we should get back to.

 

[mmakshak]

In the interests of accuracy, I read an interview with the maker of the Kandid(from memory, I thought it was said to be hand built. What that means, I don't know.), and I believe that MylesBAstor comes the closest to how it was done. I've also heard the cartridge on utube(Pasinee-I think).

Going back to the LP12, there was one guy on Audiogon who felt that one of the reasons for the LP 12's success was its speed accuracy, and by implication(my interpretation at the time)the Radikal wasn't as accurate. Other than that one person(who, I believe, tests many turntables), almost all reactions to the Radikal(their dc motor)have been positive-to the extent where this is first upgrade recommended-over the Ekos SE and Keel.

 

[mep]

Your informations are not updated. The Ekos is made in Scotland by Linn since its introduction, the Akito since the MKII version (now is MKIII).

Yeah, but let's not let the facts get in the way. You will be added to the list of people that need to "get a life."

 

[DaveyF]

Yeah, but let's not let the facts get in the way. You will be added to the list of people that need to "get a life."

This from Mr. "Uber a'phile" who ALWAYS has to have the last word!

 

[TBone]

This from Mr. "Uber a'phile" who ALWAYS has to have the last word!

LOL ... some people aye ...

Dave, the latest greatest LP12 fully dolled up, is a very capable turntable that has the potential to embarrass many a hi-end'r. However, as far as I'm concerned, the LP12's parts/build included far too many compromises for too long. Linn's upgrade path, in time, would expensively addressed (all but 1) those items. Hence, Linn has been (often hypocritically) playing "catch-up" to it's competitors for far too long, and they took full advantage.

(Hell, it took Linn nearly 2 decades to catch-up (still not quite there tho) to my legacy turntable)

tb1

 

[DaveyF]

Tbone, I have decided after much thought, to continue to commit to the Linn platform. So, I am in the midst of a MAJOR upgrade of my LP12. More on this later.

 

[Analogue innovation]

Yes, I like the LP12 but not in standard format. Three feet to start with!

John R.

 

[DaveyF]

Yes, I like the LP12 but not in standard format. Three feet to start with!

John R.

John, could you elaborate on that, Thanks.

 

[Analogue innovation]

Sure Davey...

One of the mods I offer is to fit three adjustable instrument support feet: these are approximately 20mm diameter x 15mm deep and made from fairly soft rubber approx 50-60 shore.. I then fit M6 studs to these and affix threaded inserts into blocks of hardwood which are then bonded with PVA wood glue into the two front corners of the plinth below the standard corner braces. The rear one is more difficult as we need to ensure clearance for the arm lead so this block is very small and is glued and dowelled into the plinth itself.

Partisans as you can imagine were aghast at my suggesting this mod, stating three feet would warp the plinth when in reality four feet do not prevent it happening anyhow, especially so on older pre corner braced versions.

We now have a very stable and very well isolated LP12 which can be perfectly adjusted for level. My point being. Why go to the cost and bother of ensuring perfect set up by an "expert Linn dealer" using a Linn set up jig block levelled in two axis in his workshop, if when you get your TT back home, your shelf or rack is not perfectly level in two planes itself. One of the fundamental parameters of great TT performance is having it perfectly level! If the LP12 plinth feet are not perfect and how many really are when you see the poor fit of the feet on non tramp plinths, then it is open to "micro rocking"


John R

 

[DaveyF]

Sure Davey...

One of the mods I offer is to fit three adjustable instrument support feet: these are approximately 20mm diameter x 15mm deep and made from fairly soft rubber approx 50-60 shore.. I then fit M6 studs to these and affix threaded inserts into blocks of hardwood which are then bonded with PVA wood glue into the two front corners of the plinth below the standard corner braces. The rear one is more difficult as we need to ensure clearance for the arm lead so this block is very small and is glued and dowelled into the plinth itself.

Partisans as you can imagine were aghast at my suggesting this mod, stating three feet would warp the plinth when in reality four feet do not prevent it happening anyhow, especially so on older pre corner braced versions.

We now have a very stable and very well isolated LP12 which can be perfectly adjusted for level. My point being. Why go to the cost and bother of ensuring perfect set up by an "expert Linn dealer" using a Linn set up jig block levelled in two axis in his workshop, if when you get your TT back home, your shelf or rack is not perfectly level in two planes itself. One of the fundamental parameters of great TT performance is having it perfectly level! If the LP12 plinth feet are not perfect and how many really are when you see the poor fit of the feet on non tramp plinths, then it is open to "micro rocking"


John R

That's pretty cool, John.
One of the reasons I use a Townshend Seismic sink under my LP12. Not only does this act as very good support, but it allows me to level the TT exactly, as the feet are individually adjustable.
BTW, IF you are still mounting the table on one of those "lightweight" stands or even the well thought of wall stand, you should try a Sink.....it works wonders under the LP12. FAR FAR superior to the Trampolin and these supports, IMHO.

 

[TBone]

Hi Dave ...

... the LP12 can be made to sound truly excellent, but it requires a dedication to Linn upgrade path that's beyond my financial sensibilities/capability. Well, not really, I certainly can afford the LP12 ... I just don't need too.
...
I have the sink.
...
I purposely lost the flimsy bottom base/4 rubber feet on my turntable. Instead, I attached 3 BDR cones strategically to the outer plinth which is made from kiln dried mahogany. This "mod" provides a much more rigid coupling to the wall mounted stand; under which light & rigid materials are employed thru-out. I, for 1, don't like the idea of introducing compliance under a turntable, especially a suspended model.

My CDP didn't much appreciate the sink either, however, surprisingly enough, the sink did work well under my pre-amp ... where it still resides.

tb1

 

[DaveyF]

Hi Dave ...

... the LP12 can be made to sound truly excellent, but it requires a dedication to Linn upgrade path that's beyond my financial sensibilities/capability. Well, not really, I certainly can afford the LP12 ... I just don't need too.
...
I have the sink.
...
I purposely lost the flimsy bottom base/4 rubber feet on my turntable. Instead, I attached 3 BDR cones strategically to the outer plinth which is made from kiln dried mahogany. This "mod" provides a much more rigid coupling to the wall mounted stand; under which light & rigid materials are employed thru-out. I, for 1, don't like the idea of introducing compliance under a turntable, especially a suspended model.

My CDP didn't much appreciate the sink either, however, surprisingly enough, the sink did work well under my pre-amp ... where it still resides.

tb1

Hi Tbone, I have to agree with you that the Linn upgrade path is anything BUT inexpensive. I use the sink under my LP12 which then sits on top of my Sound Anchor three post gear stand. All supported on cones and with a total weight of over 400 lbs. Sounds FAR superior than when I had the TT mounted on a flimsy lightweight TT, like Linn suggests. The sink makes a MAJOR difference.

 

[Analogue innovation]

Hi Tbone, I have to agree with you that the Linn upgrade path is anything BUT inexpensive. I use the sink under my LP12 which then sits on top of my Sound Anchor three post gear stand. All supported on cones and with a total weight of over 400 lbs. Sounds FAR superior than when I had the TT mounted on a flimsy lightweight TT, like Linn suggests. The sink makes a MAJOR difference.

Hi Gents.

I don't doubt the sink works well, but I don't like the fact it has four feet and to me, four feet is not optimal. Notwithstanding this, my three feet mod is even cheaper still and very stable, it's great for folk who like the LP12, one perhaps purchased secondhand (and possibly one of a vintage/condition that would be dissed by the partisans anyhow)..

I accept and like the thinking behind the sink but if it was sat upon three feet it would be better still.

My philosophy : The LP12 can be turned into a formidable TT with third party components, it that can then give the official costly upgraded LP12 SE and other high end TT's a run for the podium.

I have no gripe with the quality of Linn upgrades, only that the cost of them is out of kilter with what else is available.

John R

 

[DaveyF]

Hi Gents.

I don't doubt the sink works well, but I don't like the fact it has four feet and to me, four feet is not optimal. Notwithstanding this, my three feet mod is even cheaper still and very stable, it's great for folk who like the LP12, one perhaps purchased secondhand (and possibly one of a vintage/condition that would be dissed by the partisans anyhow)..

I accept and like the thinking behind the sink but if it was sat upon three feet it would be better still.

My philosophy : The LP12 can be turned into a formidable TT with third party components, it that can then give the official costly upgraded LP12 SE and other high end TT's a run for the podium.

I have no gripe with the quality of Linn upgrades, only that the cost of them is out of kilter with what else is available.

John R

I see your point, John. However, please remember that in my case the Sink sits on a three point Sound Anchor rack that is utilizing adjustable cones for the feet, all sitting on a concrete slab.. I am able to perfectly align the sink and the supporting stand. The whole affair is not only very stable but also very immune to feedback.
Right now, I am in the process of upgrading my Linn...hopefully to a level that will be at least as good as the SE.